If you or someone you know is feeling suicidal, please contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255 or go to SpeakingOfSuicide.com/resources for additional resources. Amazon is a massive player in online retail. Most of the products sold on Amazon.com, however, are not sold by Amazon. Rather, they are sold by third-party retailers using Amazon's technology. In 2021,
I certainly hope the lawsuits proceed and are successful. Perhaps a precedent could be set against arguments like “we sell bullets but it’s the users fault if they use them for other uses; the bullets certainly are not defective”.
New laws would be required to restrict the sale of such items as sodium nitrite or guns and bullets, and gun use is one of the major suicide methods.
Sodium nitrite sales could likely become regulated, no doubt, but I don't expect to see any sensible laws passed on guns/bullets anytime soon. All of it is tragic. Great report, thanks.
I don’t see how unfettered, unaccountable and impersonal marketplaces can be compatible with healthy society. Amazon has always been a long term bad idea, IMHO. In this special case I’m all for the lawyers bringing down Amazon like a ack of hungry wolves.
Amazon boasts of the amount of products they sell. $$$$. Whether it is a suicide kit or rolls of toilet paper they make money every second of every day. They care about the customer for that one reason: Profit.
Capitalism is a dirty business. My thought is the lawsuits solution will be slow and the lawyers for Amazon will fight harder because they have the funds to do so.
I'm sure everyone reading sees through it, but always worth pointing out that legal liability is not the same as moral responsibility, and Amazon may have been following all currently existing laws, but that does not mean they are not morally responsible. Especially for ignoring the effects of their recommendation algorithm.
In any library of 20th century science fiction, a good deal of the themes revolve around machines taking the place of humans, either by destroying them or enslaving them. Sodium Nitrite, according to Amazon, is just fine because it is not "defective." Rather, it is quite effective in completing the act of suicide. Amazon is run by computers and algorithms. The machine sees a teen's suicide as a successful product sale.
So the Amazon lawyers are arguing for a machine. When you are on the slippery slope, do you feel the slide to oblivion? How long will it be before the machines censor criticism about the machine?
Humans seem really incapable of easily creating solutions, or engaging in creative conversation about many of our self-induced ethical problems. Our selective approach to death and suicide seems often inadequate and superstition oriented. We spend billions to put up barriers to resist mass migrations of fleeing humans but do nothing to solve the reasons they flee.
I hope more constructive, less emotional conversation around suicide would help those who are struggling in this stressed, crowded, and often indifferent human community.
A quick search for sodium nitrate on AMAZON just now produced these results:
"Featured items you may like"
BOOKS (could not copy and paste pictures of the books)
How to Get the Death You Want: A Practical and Moral Guide Paperback – July 27, 2021
The Poor Man's Guide to an Affordable, Painless Suicide: Stories Paperback – July 26, 2014
Extreme Measures: Finding a Better Path to the End of Life Paperback – August 24, 2021
I don't know what can be done to prevent kids from acquiring sodium nitrate on Amazon but suggesting books to facilitate suicide is surely not the solution.
I would think that at the very least Amazon would change their search algorithms to prevent suggesting books on suicide.
Just because a product is not officially illegal should not mean that a company escapes responsibility for selling it. From this reporting it seems that there is not even a warning attached to the sale of sodium nitrate. Can the FDA get involved in control of this potentially lethal substance? We can’t buy cough syrup without ID but teens can get this no problem? And GOP is spending all its time on fighting “woke” by passing laws outlawing drag shows. Amazon is so big boycotting would have little effect & in a rural area where I am A is many times the best or only source (I try not to use it). Hopefully these lawsuits will be successful but this issue needs to be front page news, replacing more PR for the orange sociopathic mobster, so many more parents become aware of the threat & demand action.
FYI, the number to give people in the US who are feeling suicidal is 988, not that old 800 number. I’ve talked someone down from suicide and, believe me, you want to give people the shortest path to avoiding the act. Spread the word—988 is the easiest way to reach the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. I subscribed just to post this comment.
As usual, the two cartel parties' cheerleaders are trying to divert attention from the consequences of their own corrupt party playing keepaway ball of universal healthcare from American citizens. With universal healthcare, depressed teens and red flag gun buyers would have the ready access to mental health care now reserved for those privileged with the financial means. The latter are the ones living in gated communities with the lobbyists who also make sure the rest of America has the best government that dark money and corruption can buy. The party that doesn't care whether your family dies from lack of health care surely does not care whether your family dies from a bullet, a suicide kit, or is made homeless among the half-million citizens bankrupted by hospital bills each year. All the party cares about is their oligarch benefactors keep the money flowing to them. Thank your corrupt cartel party for the corrupt government and converting citizens into a polarized society that is accurately described by the acronym "FUBAR."
I make charcuterie, curing meat using formulations that require sodium nitrate to avoid the growth of fatal bacteria. There are legitimate uses for this product. Whether and how it is possible to regulate in a fashion that would not create an undue burden on those who use the product to avoid illness and possible death,. to prevent its use in causing death, is not clear to me.
Although not a new story it’s great to see this going to court. Not that I expect much penalty for Amazon, but spreading the info is imperative. Too many kids with access to a family computer and the payment info is conveniently saved. Too many adults who don’t read their email.
Thank you for making me aware of this. I had no idea. I will be sharing this article on my IG account to make others aware. Very likely you have saved lives by covering this issue.
I certainly hope the lawsuits proceed and are successful. Perhaps a precedent could be set against arguments like “we sell bullets but it’s the users fault if they use them for other uses; the bullets certainly are not defective”.
New laws would be required to restrict the sale of such items as sodium nitrite or guns and bullets, and gun use is one of the major suicide methods.
Sodium nitrite sales could likely become regulated, no doubt, but I don't expect to see any sensible laws passed on guns/bullets anytime soon. All of it is tragic. Great report, thanks.
I don’t see how unfettered, unaccountable and impersonal marketplaces can be compatible with healthy society. Amazon has always been a long term bad idea, IMHO. In this special case I’m all for the lawyers bringing down Amazon like a ack of hungry wolves.
Amazon boasts of the amount of products they sell. $$$$. Whether it is a suicide kit or rolls of toilet paper they make money every second of every day. They care about the customer for that one reason: Profit.
Capitalism is a dirty business. My thought is the lawsuits solution will be slow and the lawyers for Amazon will fight harder because they have the funds to do so.
My heart is with the families.
I'm sure everyone reading sees through it, but always worth pointing out that legal liability is not the same as moral responsibility, and Amazon may have been following all currently existing laws, but that does not mean they are not morally responsible. Especially for ignoring the effects of their recommendation algorithm.
In any library of 20th century science fiction, a good deal of the themes revolve around machines taking the place of humans, either by destroying them or enslaving them. Sodium Nitrite, according to Amazon, is just fine because it is not "defective." Rather, it is quite effective in completing the act of suicide. Amazon is run by computers and algorithms. The machine sees a teen's suicide as a successful product sale.
So the Amazon lawyers are arguing for a machine. When you are on the slippery slope, do you feel the slide to oblivion? How long will it be before the machines censor criticism about the machine?
With their disavowal of responsibility for the sale and use of dangerous products on their site, Amazon may just have committed suicide.
Humans seem really incapable of easily creating solutions, or engaging in creative conversation about many of our self-induced ethical problems. Our selective approach to death and suicide seems often inadequate and superstition oriented. We spend billions to put up barriers to resist mass migrations of fleeing humans but do nothing to solve the reasons they flee.
I hope more constructive, less emotional conversation around suicide would help those who are struggling in this stressed, crowded, and often indifferent human community.
A quick search for sodium nitrate on AMAZON just now produced these results:
"Featured items you may like"
BOOKS (could not copy and paste pictures of the books)
How to Get the Death You Want: A Practical and Moral Guide Paperback – July 27, 2021
The Poor Man's Guide to an Affordable, Painless Suicide: Stories Paperback – July 26, 2014
Extreme Measures: Finding a Better Path to the End of Life Paperback – August 24, 2021
I don't know what can be done to prevent kids from acquiring sodium nitrate on Amazon but suggesting books to facilitate suicide is surely not the solution.
I would think that at the very least Amazon would change their search algorithms to prevent suggesting books on suicide.
Just because a product is not officially illegal should not mean that a company escapes responsibility for selling it. From this reporting it seems that there is not even a warning attached to the sale of sodium nitrate. Can the FDA get involved in control of this potentially lethal substance? We can’t buy cough syrup without ID but teens can get this no problem? And GOP is spending all its time on fighting “woke” by passing laws outlawing drag shows. Amazon is so big boycotting would have little effect & in a rural area where I am A is many times the best or only source (I try not to use it). Hopefully these lawsuits will be successful but this issue needs to be front page news, replacing more PR for the orange sociopathic mobster, so many more parents become aware of the threat & demand action.
FYI, the number to give people in the US who are feeling suicidal is 988, not that old 800 number. I’ve talked someone down from suicide and, believe me, you want to give people the shortest path to avoiding the act. Spread the word—988 is the easiest way to reach the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. I subscribed just to post this comment.
As usual, the two cartel parties' cheerleaders are trying to divert attention from the consequences of their own corrupt party playing keepaway ball of universal healthcare from American citizens. With universal healthcare, depressed teens and red flag gun buyers would have the ready access to mental health care now reserved for those privileged with the financial means. The latter are the ones living in gated communities with the lobbyists who also make sure the rest of America has the best government that dark money and corruption can buy. The party that doesn't care whether your family dies from lack of health care surely does not care whether your family dies from a bullet, a suicide kit, or is made homeless among the half-million citizens bankrupted by hospital bills each year. All the party cares about is their oligarch benefactors keep the money flowing to them. Thank your corrupt cartel party for the corrupt government and converting citizens into a polarized society that is accurately described by the acronym "FUBAR."
I make charcuterie, curing meat using formulations that require sodium nitrate to avoid the growth of fatal bacteria. There are legitimate uses for this product. Whether and how it is possible to regulate in a fashion that would not create an undue burden on those who use the product to avoid illness and possible death,. to prevent its use in causing death, is not clear to me.
Although not a new story it’s great to see this going to court. Not that I expect much penalty for Amazon, but spreading the info is imperative. Too many kids with access to a family computer and the payment info is conveniently saved. Too many adults who don’t read their email.
Horrific. As usual, stellar report, Judd.
Thank you for making me aware of this. I had no idea. I will be sharing this article on my IG account to make others aware. Very likely you have saved lives by covering this issue.