Brick City Born, Precisely! Letting political criminals go unpunished encourages more criminal behavior. It’s all an outrage. And it all led to the formation of propaganda news to broadcast the lies.
" Penalties should be doubled..." Exactly! Especially in the case of public officials. Especially when you're voted into office & then you violate the public's trust.
Rules for thee and not for me seems to be the order of the day and it's getting worse with the addition of more performative imbeciles from the RW Party of Criminals. Santos comes to mind among the new class of miscreants.
Earlier it was said that "The penalties should be doubled, not ignored."
StanleyTwoBrix We're looking at fascists vs some corruption in the Dem party. Trump incited a DEADLY coup!! He colluded with Russia! He killed thousands by denying Covid and playing along with the vaccine as a hoax. Trump is an f’ing monster set on destroying our country as puppet for the mafia he associates with.
The attempt to pretend these are equal issues shows your blindness to the danger of TFG. You libertarians are every bit as bad as the republiCons.
Pretty much proving my point here. BTW, I'm a socialist, so basically the opposite of a libertarian. People really need to agree on a political spectrum.
"My party's corruption (to which I just openly admitted to!) is not worth investigating! Only the other party's corruption as should be investigated!"
How is a rational person supposed to take that comment seriously?
Also, considering the rising authoritarianism on the Democratic party's leadership and their increasingly open support to government censorship, I'm seeing fascism on both sides of the aisle.
I mean, look at yourself - saying that your own party's crimes should be ignored so that we can unite as a nation to oppose the dreaded other.
Clearly you are the hysterical one and very short on facts. I stated nothing compares to the criminality of your MAGA party. Based on the likes I’ve received, you are not fooling anyone.
The Democratic party is not censoring. Who is banning books about facts, history, slavery and LGBTQ? The only party doing that is your Fascist-deadly seditionist mob party. Poor snowflake, your criminal orange leader is going down! You’ve been duped.
So take your trolling elsewhere-nobody here with a brain is buying your comical delusions.
Thanks. It is very hard to be respectful, and I am afraid I often fail. I'm not into preaching to the choir, but I hope to change people's minds, or have my mind changed. Being a jerk online doesn't help. And I am often, looking back on it, a jerk.
Snark is easier than making a good and irrefutable argument. I hope to do better in the future, but my passions run as high as anyone else's and I am considerably more boneheaded than most when I'm riled up.
[Hastily goes back and changes a snarky comment he just left...]
Thanks for the reminder. Something I'm working on and will continue to do so.
How so? By stating that an “ingroup”, being the Obama administration, brought charges against another member er of the “ingroup”, John Edwards - who was not only a member of the group, but a former VP candidate? How is that being partisan?
When making this statement “i have met precious few people who appear to actually have principles beyond "ingroup good, outgroup bad!"”, you are stating that you do not believe that people in an “ingroup”are capable of holding others in the same “ingroup” accountable. I could provide you with dozens of instances of Democrats being held to account for their actions. I can show you dozens of situations where Republicans have been held to account for their actions. Both of these, historically, have been a party rooting out its own for going against norms and customs. Most recently,
Al Franken and Katie Hill were shamed into leaving their seats over allegations of sexual misconduct. The GOP, meanwhile, drubbed Madison Cawthorn out for disclosing their back room cocaine orgies, but then does nothing about the likes of George Santos and the rest of the CV fabulists of the current GOP “freshman class”. They don’t even give these clowns the Steve King treatment and de-platform them from committees and let the voters decide, because it wouldn’t matter anyway. Their home districts are so gerrymandered and no one is going to outflank someone like Marjorie Taylor Greene to her right and until Georgia voters want a change, she’s their gal, so GOP leadership has no choice but to embrace her.
So, no, I am not being partisan. I am saying that until very recently, when people in any party have done things outside of the “norms” of society, they have been rebuked by their own group. It’s only in the past couple of years where this has changed. The thing that has changed, is the “norms” themselves. And where, once upon a time, certain things were considered “beyond the pale”, those things are now de rigueur. And since, as you say, people are bound to an “ingroup good, outgroup ad” mentality, why is it that one group still holds their own people accountable for their actions while the other does everything in their power to ensure that their group is protected - unless, like in the case of Cawthorn, someone crosses the line regarding the group itself?
Maybe I am misinterpreting your statement. 🤷🏼♀️
(And I just read your comment about trying not to be snarky which is hard when passions are riled up. Apologies in advance if this is overly snarky. 😅)
The only point I'd like to make is that you are writing that all these people are guilty of something. Jared, Ivanka, Hunter... all innocent. Until proven guilty. As an independent I say, yes, prosecute them all if necessary.
As of now, I have no reason to believe any of those people are guilty of anything other than bad judgment, or being the child of a particularly despicable human being.
Perhaps if you looked into the matter, you would see it is as plain as day that all of them are guilty of selling access to the presidency.
That's literally Hunter Biden's job - or did you think that he was hired by an oil company for $50k/month because they just wanted the fresh perspective of a person who had never worked in the oil business before.
As for the Trumps - they didn't even wait until the end of Trump's term to start cashing in. Did you think those huge investments they were getting from Saudi Arabia were for their business accumen?
And just because it may or may not be illegal doesn't mean it isn't corrupt and wrong.
No, no... I agree with you. I cannot say that I have plumbed the depths of the suspicions or evidence against any of them. Sure, it is likely that all three were selling access to the presidency. Looming over all this is the orangeman, who certainly is nothing but a con man and charlatan. I've slowly realized that none of this, his presidency, all of it... was purely about money.
On the point of not wanting to prosecute Trump for fear of making him a martyr, I don't know that there's a way around it. The "white victim" mentality is a hell of a drug.
Like the Energizer Bunny, they just keep on going no matter how many times their lies and hypocrisy are called out. As shameless as their Dear Leader. We can only hope the Dominion case does them in.
The Edward's case was federally prosecuted (unlike in this case) and a much clearer argument could be made that it was politically motivated. He was found not guilty on one count, deadlocked jury on the others, and I won't be surprised to see this guy slip by as well, but any reasonable person would conclude that in both cases, campaign finance laws were broken and the cover-up was done before the election because the respective politician's believed it would damage their campaigns.
Some other interesting items when comparing and contrasting the two cases:
- Edwards case was brought during the Bush 43 administration, the ticket that beat he and John Kerry during a heated race for the White House. I don't remember calls from Dems that GWB's 'partisan' DOJ was ruining the country out of partisan spite.
- John Edwards was indicted and brought to trial without any interference, threats or bellyaching from Democrats. None of them defended him or made him the victim, when he paid hush money to cover up his affair while his wife was dying of cancer. If any of them did, please send links from reputable reporting services and I'll retract the claim.
- Republicans are fundraising, threatening, cajoling and rousing extremists to defend The Cheeto's hush payments to cover up an affair he had, while his wife recovered from giving birth to their son.
- The jury was deadlocked on Edwards' charges, so the prosecution dropped it. No trickery or interference from anyone influenced the outcome.
Republicans, like law and order? Then let your guy face the music in court, and answer his charges without your party acting hysterically.
I believe the punishments for elected officials should exceed those for private citizens. Perhaps this could be done in a bipartisan manner. For instance, for fraud - double the penalties. If it involves taxpayer dollars or campaign contributions - immediate disqualification from running for office.
Our Republican friends DO believe in the "rule of law," it's just that they operate by a different law than the ones the founders wrote into the Constitution or those passed by our nation's Legislative bodies. The "conservative" GQP law is quite simple - "Whatever it takes for OUR side to win." Lie, cheat, steal, work the refs, change (or twist) the rules, stack the deck (or the courts with judges who worship at the Federalist Society's evil altar), proof text from your scriptures (picking a verse here or there while ignoring the context and meaning of that verse in its own day and time)... nothing is out of line as long as it promises to bring victory. (Of course they have about as much idea of what to do if they really win as Homer Simpson had about how to build a car.) They desperately like to think they're strong, but really, they're the weakest among us. So much of a healthy human personality has been beaten out of them, verbally or physically, by the families, communities, and communities of faith that raised them, that there's not much left of the person God (or the universe, if you prefer) designed and created them to be. They are completely emotionally dependent on strong man leaders (religious, political, athletic), guns, throwing the US military around, etc., to help them feel strong and confident in the same way normal people feel without those things every day. When healthy people lose, they pick up the pieces, evaluate what happened and go on to fight another day. When "conservatives" or "GQPers" lose, they are totally knocked flat. They feel weak, powerless, worthless, useless, and deflated, as if that loss makes them less a person than they were before (which, psychologically, it does because it takes away the power of the crutches they use just to feel normal and OK every day). The worst, most deplorable of them will do almost anything to avoid that experience which is WHY they're willing to lie, cheat, steal, work the refs, change (or twist) the rules, stack the deck (or the courts judges who worship at the Federalist Society altar), proof text from their scriptures (picking a verse here or there while ignoring the context and meaning of that verse in its own day and time). Beneath it all, they are terrified! There's so little of their original human personality left that they don't have the strength to stand the psychological pain that losing threatens to visit upon them. They try to put up a brave front, but they are among our society's weakest, most emotionally/psychologically disabled members. They are also the planet's easiest marks for any con man (or cable news or religious network) that catches their attention, exacerbates their dysfunctions, addicts them to insecurity coupled with outrage (i.e. victimhood), then offers continuous doses of reinforcing/enabling programming.
Fox and friends will continue to lie as long as they are getting away with it. Dominions suit must prevail and hit them hard in the pocket book. The ability of them to lie and spew continuous disinformation must end.
As long as bad "conservative" parenting and bad "conservative" religion keeps damaging the children in their care, we will continue to provide weasel news and "conservative" talk radio with an easily-victimized audience. We need to help people raised this way to recover what they've lost, and make sure children are no longer so damaged by their upbringing as to become such dysfunctional adults. If we make it a societal priority to raise healthy, fully human, fully functional adults, the entire "conservative" enterprise will wither on the vine and die off.
Ahh, those pesky videos, texts, social media posts, that continue to remind folks of someone's lies, back peddling, double standards, moral turpitude. There's no hiding anymore.
And THIS is why Nixon should have been prosecuted for ALL of his crimes.
If that had been done we would not be in this current pig sty. I will never forgive Ford for that pardon.
Brick City Born, Precisely! Letting political criminals go unpunished encourages more criminal behavior. It’s all an outrage. And it all led to the formation of propaganda news to broadcast the lies.
Unless those criminals belong to your own party, amirite? Or maybe it was someone else who wrote:
"We're looking at fascists vs some corruption in the Dem party."
So, doesn't seem like you are so concerned with ALL corruption, does it?
This does make my stomach churn. “Courage” seems to have changed meaning in the last 60 years.
It is chilling how many people seem to think the powerful shouldn't be held accountable for their actions, so long as they are in the same party.
You'd think we could all agree that our leaders should have to follow the law, just like the rest of us.
The penalties should be doubled, not ignored.
" Penalties should be doubled..." Exactly! Especially in the case of public officials. Especially when you're voted into office & then you violate the public's trust.
Yes --penalties too for all the legislators who supported Jan6 coup attempt and voted not to accept the electoral count.
Rules for thee and not for me seems to be the order of the day and it's getting worse with the addition of more performative imbeciles from the RW Party of Criminals. Santos comes to mind among the new class of miscreants.
Earlier it was said that "The penalties should be doubled, not ignored."
Agreed dammit!
Send them all to prison.
Not only prison, they should be forever disqualified from holding any office.
Uh, HELL YEAH!!!!
Their hypocrisy knows no bounds.
Unfortunately, I think their hypocrisy pretty much exactly mirrors that of the general public.
All the Democrats thank Jerrod, Don Jr, Ivanka, etc should go to jail for selling influence. I agree.
All the Republicans think Hunter Biden should go to jail for selling influence. I also agree.
However, the Repubs seem as undisturbed by the Trump family's corruption as the Dems are undisturbed by the Biden's.
I have met precious few people who appear to actually have principles beyond "ingroup good, outgroup bad!"
StanleyTwoBrix We're looking at fascists vs some corruption in the Dem party. Trump incited a DEADLY coup!! He colluded with Russia! He killed thousands by denying Covid and playing along with the vaccine as a hoax. Trump is an f’ing monster set on destroying our country as puppet for the mafia he associates with.
The attempt to pretend these are equal issues shows your blindness to the danger of TFG. You libertarians are every bit as bad as the republiCons.
Pretty much proving my point here. BTW, I'm a socialist, so basically the opposite of a libertarian. People really need to agree on a political spectrum.
"My party's corruption (to which I just openly admitted to!) is not worth investigating! Only the other party's corruption as should be investigated!"
How is a rational person supposed to take that comment seriously?
Also, considering the rising authoritarianism on the Democratic party's leadership and their increasingly open support to government censorship, I'm seeing fascism on both sides of the aisle.
I mean, look at yourself - saying that your own party's crimes should be ignored so that we can unite as a nation to oppose the dreaded other.
How is that any different than what the GOP says?
Hypocrisy tends to undermine trust.
Clearly you are the hysterical one and very short on facts. I stated nothing compares to the criminality of your MAGA party. Based on the likes I’ve received, you are not fooling anyone.
The Democratic party is not censoring. Who is banning books about facts, history, slavery and LGBTQ? The only party doing that is your Fascist-deadly seditionist mob party. Poor snowflake, your criminal orange leader is going down! You’ve been duped.
So take your trolling elsewhere-nobody here with a brain is buying your comical delusions.
When you consider that John Edwards was prosecuted when Obama was in office, I believe your premise is flawed.
Stanley's premises are often flawed but he is polite, so I give him that credit.
Thanks. It is very hard to be respectful, and I am afraid I often fail. I'm not into preaching to the choir, but I hope to change people's minds, or have my mind changed. Being a jerk online doesn't help. And I am often, looking back on it, a jerk.
Snark is easier than making a good and irrefutable argument. I hope to do better in the future, but my passions run as high as anyone else's and I am considerably more boneheaded than most when I'm riled up.
[Hastily goes back and changes a snarky comment he just left...]
Thanks for the reminder. Something I'm working on and will continue to do so.
Well, I guess it's easier to argue with a point I didn't make, rather than the one I did.
Thank you for proving my point, though. Couldn't find a better example of exactly what I'm talking about, so... Thanks?
How so? By stating that an “ingroup”, being the Obama administration, brought charges against another member er of the “ingroup”, John Edwards - who was not only a member of the group, but a former VP candidate? How is that being partisan?
When making this statement “i have met precious few people who appear to actually have principles beyond "ingroup good, outgroup bad!"”, you are stating that you do not believe that people in an “ingroup”are capable of holding others in the same “ingroup” accountable. I could provide you with dozens of instances of Democrats being held to account for their actions. I can show you dozens of situations where Republicans have been held to account for their actions. Both of these, historically, have been a party rooting out its own for going against norms and customs. Most recently,
Al Franken and Katie Hill were shamed into leaving their seats over allegations of sexual misconduct. The GOP, meanwhile, drubbed Madison Cawthorn out for disclosing their back room cocaine orgies, but then does nothing about the likes of George Santos and the rest of the CV fabulists of the current GOP “freshman class”. They don’t even give these clowns the Steve King treatment and de-platform them from committees and let the voters decide, because it wouldn’t matter anyway. Their home districts are so gerrymandered and no one is going to outflank someone like Marjorie Taylor Greene to her right and until Georgia voters want a change, she’s their gal, so GOP leadership has no choice but to embrace her.
So, no, I am not being partisan. I am saying that until very recently, when people in any party have done things outside of the “norms” of society, they have been rebuked by their own group. It’s only in the past couple of years where this has changed. The thing that has changed, is the “norms” themselves. And where, once upon a time, certain things were considered “beyond the pale”, those things are now de rigueur. And since, as you say, people are bound to an “ingroup good, outgroup ad” mentality, why is it that one group still holds their own people accountable for their actions while the other does everything in their power to ensure that their group is protected - unless, like in the case of Cawthorn, someone crosses the line regarding the group itself?
Maybe I am misinterpreting your statement. 🤷🏼♀️
(And I just read your comment about trying not to be snarky which is hard when passions are riled up. Apologies in advance if this is overly snarky. 😅)
StanleyTwoBrix: Your constant false equivalences are really annoying.
Where did I say they were equivalent?
You do understand that if one person is bad, it doesn't make the other person good, right?
And to go even further, one person can be bad, and the other can be worse.
This is not advanced math here.
You’re right, it is *you* that is annoying. But carry on.
The only point I'd like to make is that you are writing that all these people are guilty of something. Jared, Ivanka, Hunter... all innocent. Until proven guilty. As an independent I say, yes, prosecute them all if necessary.
As of now, I have no reason to believe any of those people are guilty of anything other than bad judgment, or being the child of a particularly despicable human being.
Perhaps if you looked into the matter, you would see it is as plain as day that all of them are guilty of selling access to the presidency.
That's literally Hunter Biden's job - or did you think that he was hired by an oil company for $50k/month because they just wanted the fresh perspective of a person who had never worked in the oil business before.
As for the Trumps - they didn't even wait until the end of Trump's term to start cashing in. Did you think those huge investments they were getting from Saudi Arabia were for their business accumen?
And just because it may or may not be illegal doesn't mean it isn't corrupt and wrong.
No, no... I agree with you. I cannot say that I have plumbed the depths of the suspicions or evidence against any of them. Sure, it is likely that all three were selling access to the presidency. Looming over all this is the orangeman, who certainly is nothing but a con man and charlatan. I've slowly realized that none of this, his presidency, all of it... was purely about money.
On the point of not wanting to prosecute Trump for fear of making him a martyr, I don't know that there's a way around it. The "white victim" mentality is a hell of a drug.
Like the Energizer Bunny, they just keep on going no matter how many times their lies and hypocrisy are called out. As shameless as their Dear Leader. We can only hope the Dominion case does them in.
The Edward's case was federally prosecuted (unlike in this case) and a much clearer argument could be made that it was politically motivated. He was found not guilty on one count, deadlocked jury on the others, and I won't be surprised to see this guy slip by as well, but any reasonable person would conclude that in both cases, campaign finance laws were broken and the cover-up was done before the election because the respective politician's believed it would damage their campaigns.
Wall Street Journal..Trusted Business News, they have become a joke, but with some luck, they, Fox, and Rupert will get their @$$ handed to them
I for one can't wait to see it!
Some other interesting items when comparing and contrasting the two cases:
- Edwards case was brought during the Bush 43 administration, the ticket that beat he and John Kerry during a heated race for the White House. I don't remember calls from Dems that GWB's 'partisan' DOJ was ruining the country out of partisan spite.
- John Edwards was indicted and brought to trial without any interference, threats or bellyaching from Democrats. None of them defended him or made him the victim, when he paid hush money to cover up his affair while his wife was dying of cancer. If any of them did, please send links from reputable reporting services and I'll retract the claim.
- Republicans are fundraising, threatening, cajoling and rousing extremists to defend The Cheeto's hush payments to cover up an affair he had, while his wife recovered from giving birth to their son.
- The jury was deadlocked on Edwards' charges, so the prosecution dropped it. No trickery or interference from anyone influenced the outcome.
Republicans, like law and order? Then let your guy face the music in court, and answer his charges without your party acting hysterically.
I believe the punishments for elected officials should exceed those for private citizens. Perhaps this could be done in a bipartisan manner. For instance, for fraud - double the penalties. If it involves taxpayer dollars or campaign contributions - immediate disqualification from running for office.
And who today hears ANYTHING about John Edwards? Ever, at all? I'm waiting.
If only it is so with the DonCon - how long before we NEVER HAVE to hear/read/see anything about this immoral self-serving psychopath!
Remember, voters have short memories. The tactic works.
Thanks, Judd!
Our Republican friends DO believe in the "rule of law," it's just that they operate by a different law than the ones the founders wrote into the Constitution or those passed by our nation's Legislative bodies. The "conservative" GQP law is quite simple - "Whatever it takes for OUR side to win." Lie, cheat, steal, work the refs, change (or twist) the rules, stack the deck (or the courts with judges who worship at the Federalist Society's evil altar), proof text from your scriptures (picking a verse here or there while ignoring the context and meaning of that verse in its own day and time)... nothing is out of line as long as it promises to bring victory. (Of course they have about as much idea of what to do if they really win as Homer Simpson had about how to build a car.) They desperately like to think they're strong, but really, they're the weakest among us. So much of a healthy human personality has been beaten out of them, verbally or physically, by the families, communities, and communities of faith that raised them, that there's not much left of the person God (or the universe, if you prefer) designed and created them to be. They are completely emotionally dependent on strong man leaders (religious, political, athletic), guns, throwing the US military around, etc., to help them feel strong and confident in the same way normal people feel without those things every day. When healthy people lose, they pick up the pieces, evaluate what happened and go on to fight another day. When "conservatives" or "GQPers" lose, they are totally knocked flat. They feel weak, powerless, worthless, useless, and deflated, as if that loss makes them less a person than they were before (which, psychologically, it does because it takes away the power of the crutches they use just to feel normal and OK every day). The worst, most deplorable of them will do almost anything to avoid that experience which is WHY they're willing to lie, cheat, steal, work the refs, change (or twist) the rules, stack the deck (or the courts judges who worship at the Federalist Society altar), proof text from their scriptures (picking a verse here or there while ignoring the context and meaning of that verse in its own day and time). Beneath it all, they are terrified! There's so little of their original human personality left that they don't have the strength to stand the psychological pain that losing threatens to visit upon them. They try to put up a brave front, but they are among our society's weakest, most emotionally/psychologically disabled members. They are also the planet's easiest marks for any con man (or cable news or religious network) that catches their attention, exacerbates their dysfunctions, addicts them to insecurity coupled with outrage (i.e. victimhood), then offers continuous doses of reinforcing/enabling programming.
It isn’t the “rule of law”. It’s politics.
Fox and friends will continue to lie as long as they are getting away with it. Dominions suit must prevail and hit them hard in the pocket book. The ability of them to lie and spew continuous disinformation must end.
👍
As long as bad "conservative" parenting and bad "conservative" religion keeps damaging the children in their care, we will continue to provide weasel news and "conservative" talk radio with an easily-victimized audience. We need to help people raised this way to recover what they've lost, and make sure children are no longer so damaged by their upbringing as to become such dysfunctional adults. If we make it a societal priority to raise healthy, fully human, fully functional adults, the entire "conservative" enterprise will wither on the vine and die off.
Ahh, those pesky videos, texts, social media posts, that continue to remind folks of someone's lies, back peddling, double standards, moral turpitude. There's no hiding anymore.