This week, a federal judge appointed by former president Donald Trump, Brantley Starr, ordered three attorneys who work for Southwest Airlines to undergo "religious liberty training" conducted by the Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF), a far-right extremist group that opposes abortion rights. Starr ordered that the "training shall be conducted by ADF at a time set by ADF, it shall last a minimum of 8 hours of instructional time, and it must be completed by August 28, 2023." The company "must transport ADF’s representative to Dallas and be responsible for any food, accommodation, or other travel expenses for ADF’s representative."
If I were one of the attorneys or the CEO of Southwest, I might sue that MY religious beliefs were being violated by religious indoctrination ordered by the government.
Surely this cannot be legal because ADF is not a neutral educational establishment that can be trusted to provide balanced "training" on this topic? How can the judge know what the "training" will consist of and what will be the impact - psychological or otherwise on those subjected to it. I hope SW Airlines appeal. Please keep us posted on this one Judd because it sets an alarming legal precedent as highlighted by others here.
Judges like Starr are positioning themselves for prime appointments in the theocracy that they hope to create. The divide between government and Christianism doesn't occur to them.
Such a requirement would likely be assaulted as unconstitutional. Private non-profits provide training (usually “workshops” for employers all the time on a variety of topics - including local judges, police, etc. For instance, topics related to human trafficking and other forms of trauma and abuse. Many are charitable religious organizations or are funded by religious organizations and provide services to victims. ... services that align with their religious views. Although they solicit donations and private grants they often rely on government grants & enjoy a larger than healthy role in public policy. There are very good ones who do not impose on the autonomy of those they serve and then there are others.
When the government began funding religious organizations the door opened for problems like this (George Bush - Faith Based Initiatives).
It's just like the Supreme Court giving a hypothetical web designer ,that wasn't even a company ,who used a real person name without that person's knowledge and gave a hypothetical that if she were asked to do a web design for gay couple could she discriminate !! It wasn't that she did it but could she do it ! A hypothetical situation went to the Supreme Court and they ruled in favor of a hypothetical ! How is that legal !!! Is the Supreme Court completely off their rockers !!! What's next ??
If I were one of the attorneys ordered to endure the bullshit from this hate group I would record every single minute of the "training" and put it all online. Let the public see for itself what lies these people spew. On the other hand I might also object to every lie and argue with the trainer at every turn. As for the order to transport, house and feed these assholes. Last row, middle seats. Motel in the sketchiest part of Dallas we can find. Food from Taco Bell and McDonalds.
Or be totally in your face - wear headphones and spend all day watching Netflix - or even more in your face - bring your computer and spend the day writing the briefs for the lawsuit you are going to file against them.
I sincerely hope that this sentence is appealed. All who care about the actual first amendment must fight for not only separation of church and state but freedom from religion as well
Hate groups now get additional license to push their hate, with a judge abusing his power to help them. Starr must have gone to hate school with Aileen Cannon..
So, to sum up, one Southwest employee engages in a campaign of harassment against another Southwest employee who, after the barrage of offensive messages, finally reports them to management, which then fires the employee sending the message. That former employee then sues the airline and somehow convinces a jury that she was right (only in Texas could that happen) and wins her lawsuit, with the end result being that after the airline follows the Court's instructions and issues a statement, the Court then find the statement "inadequate" and orders it to undergo "religious liberty training" from the far-right ADF?!
I honestly believe that people like Carter and “Judge” Starr are going to drive me out of my mind. I just can’t handle their craziness any longer. The SWA staff trying to deal with an out of control employee or the attorneys defending SWA must think they no longer live in a rational world. I can’t imagine how angry I would be if I had to sit through that “training”. Florida is bad but they are suddenly walking back some of the more deranged book banning and Disney persecution but Texas! Wow!
Me,too. I have been on vacation and purposefully not been on Twitter X or here/substacks I read for the last few days. I am mad as hell again after catching up for the past hour.
This is one more reason to support Southern Poverty Law Center.
Is there an appeal available to Southwest?
This is atrocious far right “ Christian” intervention in our lives. There is nothing about this group or this judge that could be interpreted as ‘ Christian’ .
These people and this judge think to force their shallow little will on everyone.
This woman Carter is a lunatic .
And she did harass her co worker.
These same people are anti abortion and pro gun . So essentially they want these babies born so they can be gunned down later in their lives.
Perhaps in a town in Texas.
These jurors should never have been allowed to serve they were clearly rabid antiabortionists.
Gunned down perhaps in a school like in Uvalde? Uvalde Co. where they voted Abbott back into office overwhelmingly. The majority of the people of Texas, like the jurors in this verdict, have been very obvious where they stand. It ain't just the Kool Aid, baby. Texans believe in this stuff.
Evidently, it's cool for somebody to harass another person for years if they are anti-abortion. Also, it's sadly unsurprising that this was possible on Messenger. Enforceable terms of service? Who needs those? 🙃
This "judge" is the nephew of one Kenneth Starr, former Special Prosecutor famously obsessed with a stained-dress and all manner of inquiries about the sexual congress of one President William J. Clinton. Even if these people don't spawn them, their brothers manage to make one just as bad as they would have.
If I were one of the attorneys or the CEO of Southwest, I might sue that MY religious beliefs were being violated by religious indoctrination ordered by the government.
My thoughts exactly.
Surely this cannot be legal because ADF is not a neutral educational establishment that can be trusted to provide balanced "training" on this topic? How can the judge know what the "training" will consist of and what will be the impact - psychological or otherwise on those subjected to it. I hope SW Airlines appeal. Please keep us posted on this one Judd because it sets an alarming legal precedent as highlighted by others here.
Judges like Starr are positioning themselves for prime appointments in the theocracy that they hope to create. The divide between government and Christianism doesn't occur to them.
It occurs to them. They want to end the separation of church and state, and have the state enforce a theocratic system.
Yes—it does occur to them. See today’s (2/23/24) Steady post by Dan Rather regarding CPAC. Frightening!
Such a requirement would likely be assaulted as unconstitutional. Private non-profits provide training (usually “workshops” for employers all the time on a variety of topics - including local judges, police, etc. For instance, topics related to human trafficking and other forms of trauma and abuse. Many are charitable religious organizations or are funded by religious organizations and provide services to victims. ... services that align with their religious views. Although they solicit donations and private grants they often rely on government grants & enjoy a larger than healthy role in public policy. There are very good ones who do not impose on the autonomy of those they serve and then there are others.
When the government began funding religious organizations the door opened for problems like this (George Bush - Faith Based Initiatives).
https://origins.osu.edu/history-news/dark-side-faith-based-initiatives?language_content_entity=en
It's just like the Supreme Court giving a hypothetical web designer ,that wasn't even a company ,who used a real person name without that person's knowledge and gave a hypothetical that if she were asked to do a web design for gay couple could she discriminate !! It wasn't that she did it but could she do it ! A hypothetical situation went to the Supreme Court and they ruled in favor of a hypothetical ! How is that legal !!! Is the Supreme Court completely off their rockers !!! What's next ??
Or like that coach that totally wasn't pressuring his players to pray with him before games. Except that he absolutely was.
It shouldn't be legal, but SCOTUS said it was. I think the EXTREME COURT is illegal.
If I were one of the attorneys ordered to endure the bullshit from this hate group I would record every single minute of the "training" and put it all online. Let the public see for itself what lies these people spew. On the other hand I might also object to every lie and argue with the trainer at every turn. As for the order to transport, house and feed these assholes. Last row, middle seats. Motel in the sketchiest part of Dallas we can find. Food from Taco Bell and McDonalds.
I would invite protestors to the training who disagree strongly with their position. Or just all sit and turn their backs to them the entire 8 hours.
This is state-sponsored hate and religious indoctrination.
Or be totally in your face - wear headphones and spend all day watching Netflix - or even more in your face - bring your computer and spend the day writing the briefs for the lawsuit you are going to file against them.
Or reply to any questions or comments from the "trainers" with stock phrases in the languages used by other religions.
The last might please a lot of them.
I sincerely hope that this sentence is appealed. All who care about the actual first amendment must fight for not only separation of church and state but freedom from religion as well
Hate groups now get additional license to push their hate, with a judge abusing his power to help them. Starr must have gone to hate school with Aileen Cannon..
This is so very wrong. People need to understand these conservative libertarians have moved toward autocracy. There is a long line of this tendency.
So, to sum up, one Southwest employee engages in a campaign of harassment against another Southwest employee who, after the barrage of offensive messages, finally reports them to management, which then fires the employee sending the message. That former employee then sues the airline and somehow convinces a jury that she was right (only in Texas could that happen) and wins her lawsuit, with the end result being that after the airline follows the Court's instructions and issues a statement, the Court then find the statement "inadequate" and orders it to undergo "religious liberty training" from the far-right ADF?!
Only in Red State America could this ever occur.
I don’t think we can ever count on it being only in red states . This is a poison that is spreading everywhere.
Hopefully not but yeah, I could see this happening.
I don’t think there would be a jury in this civil case. The right-wing judge was jury and executioner too.
I honestly believe that people like Carter and “Judge” Starr are going to drive me out of my mind. I just can’t handle their craziness any longer. The SWA staff trying to deal with an out of control employee or the attorneys defending SWA must think they no longer live in a rational world. I can’t imagine how angry I would be if I had to sit through that “training”. Florida is bad but they are suddenly walking back some of the more deranged book banning and Disney persecution but Texas! Wow!
Honestly, maybe they should subject this character to some of her own treatment. See how she likes it.
Me,too. I have been on vacation and purposefully not been on Twitter X or here/substacks I read for the last few days. I am mad as hell again after catching up for the past hour.
This judgment is despicable! I am hoping it will be appealed to a higher court?
Which one? Just curious.
5th Circuit. The whole thing (the verdict) is already on appeal. There must have been some really interesting jury instructions.
Understood. Thank you Susan.
Oh, great....the 5th Circuit. A real open-minded bunch there!
Waiting for GOD v. ADAM to be cited by SCOTUS. That is some seriously novel legal theory
Hey now! Didn't want any notoriety Jeff.
Lol! Sorry friend, justice can be messy
I'll say. Look what you did to my SHOE!?! %$^#%^^&@#
LoL
This is one more reason to support Southern Poverty Law Center.
Is there an appeal available to Southwest?
This is atrocious far right “ Christian” intervention in our lives. There is nothing about this group or this judge that could be interpreted as ‘ Christian’ .
These people and this judge think to force their shallow little will on everyone.
This woman Carter is a lunatic .
And she did harass her co worker.
These same people are anti abortion and pro gun . So essentially they want these babies born so they can be gunned down later in their lives.
Perhaps in a town in Texas.
These jurors should never have been allowed to serve they were clearly rabid antiabortionists.
Was certainly a jury of her peers.
Her enablers.
SPLC has been way ahead of the feds for a long time.
Yes I’ve been supporting them since 1997.
They are truly cognizant of whats been wrong with
Our biased belief system in this country.
One of my favorite charities.
The absolutely irony of the ADF dismissing the SPLC as an organization that " that attacks anyone who disagrees with its narrow political agenda."
But then, self-awareness was never really a strength of the far right.
Gunned down perhaps in a school like in Uvalde? Uvalde Co. where they voted Abbott back into office overwhelmingly. The majority of the people of Texas, like the jurors in this verdict, have been very obvious where they stand. It ain't just the Kool Aid, baby. Texans believe in this stuff.
Southwest is APPEALING this, right? Even THIS SCOTUS can't countenance this, right?
Evidently, it's cool for somebody to harass another person for years if they are anti-abortion. Also, it's sadly unsurprising that this was possible on Messenger. Enforceable terms of service? Who needs those? 🙃
PS ADF is a good example of where Religion went wrong. And moored itself into a totally narrow path of destruction. For anyone who doesn’t accept this
mess , they’re just wrong .
The judge is incapable of impartiality.
He is a zealot.
This "judge" is the nephew of one Kenneth Starr, former Special Prosecutor famously obsessed with a stained-dress and all manner of inquiries about the sexual congress of one President William J. Clinton. Even if these people don't spawn them, their brothers manage to make one just as bad as they would have.
I. Hate. Religion.
Right there with you! This is weaponized religion !!!
I assume the pilots will file their own suit against this.