Last week, Popular Information broke down the "offer" that the Trump administration was making to millions of federal employees to induce them to resign voluntarily.
The 20K who took the deal got played. They are going to be left with nothing. No buyout. No pension. No severance. Nothing. And they will not be able to do a damn thing about it.
How does taking this offer impact retirement benefits? Articles tend to say an employee who was planning to retire might take the offer but it is a resignation not a retirement. In private business this would matter a lot with respect to benefits like health insurance.
The threat of being fired may have pushed some over the edge on this. I don’t know how it works if they are represented by a union, especially when this was not negotiated with the union. Then there are going to be employees who have little seniority who figure they get nothing if they’re pushed out anyway.
I was laid off in 2017 by a corporate giant. Very similar deal. In order to get my severance and my 401K I had to drop all claims against the corporation, including being on the floor with asbestos and the company didn't get a building permit for the renovation. A whistle blower alerted the rest of us. We were right across the street from City Hall. So, there was no excuse. This is how corporate America operates. Musk is part of it. So confusing language is to be expected, imho. The flabby elephant in the room is why is Musk allowed to do any of this by law?
Being a former union worker I imagine the federal workers are being advised against this contract. For some, this may sound like a new way to call in sick, and in a pool of 2.4m, there is bound to be some who call in sick a lot. Will the Trump admin claim a victory with a 1% acceptance? Probably. And those that leave this way will be spotlighted as under performing, the "buyout" a test to weed out the bottom feeders.
I have been in a close situation when, as a New York City teacher, the city several times went broke and suggested people voluntarily hand in their resignations, usually that meant older teachers who were close to or beyond retirement age. This is usually the case, the culled workers are the older staff. Bye bye experience, bye bye institutional knowledge, bye bye mentors.
Consideration is a promise , performance, or forbearance bargained by a promisor in exchange for their promise. Consideration is the main element of a contract . Without consideration by both parties, a contract cannot be enforceable.
Legally a contract involves a "consideration," defined as an agreed benefit, a thing that could be a promise etc. in exchange for something of value to the other party, like money or a physical item or another promise.
So if one party offers nothing to the other, a legal "contract" cannot be made and there is nothing to enforce.
Both parties could sign off on the written agreement on paper but it would be meaningless.
I saw this type of separation contract with an employer in the 1980s. The company offered nothing in return of value, but it was upheld in several courts. The parties knew what they were getting, which was not being laid off or fired. That was the so-called value.
Right. It's called an 'arms length' contract. Both parties are presumed to be competent to make their decisions. If one of them gets screwed, too bad. This applies most cruelly when one of the parties has or should have a fiduciary obligation to the other. Courts like to side with the screwor, not the screwee.
Even if both parties agree if one side gets nothing, not to mention one side has all the power and drafted the contract a court can say it’s unenforceable. Think of a person without a lawyer signing a prenup where the other side’s lawyer is explaining the terms.
The Senate *MUST* stand up to this. Contact your Senators ASAP and demand they take action! Many Senators have a legal background or know competent attorneys.
Sadly, Nancy one of my senators is a member of the newly formed DOGE caucus., the other is ancient. Phoning them won't help. Have you guessed yet who they are? Ernst and Grassley.
Actually phoning Republicans is EXACTLY what we need to do. Office staff track the most commented topics of each day's call. Look up ALL the office phone numbers for your Senators and Representatives in your state. Note the zip code of one of those phone numbers. Then call with a message similar to: "I am a voter in _______ zip code**. YOU let Elon Musk steal the US Treasury system. I am holding YOU responsible for his illegal actions. Stop collaborating with this coup now." I am calling all the Republicans in my state right now. Mostly I have to leave a voice mail (very cathartic!) but if someone answers I ask that they take my message to the Senator or Representative. The more calls you make and the more days you make them, the more likely it will add to the count of messages coming in and demanding action.
My spouse and I contacted our senators and representative by call and email. At least we tried to. And they are all republican. I had to talk to a staffer who would not give me a first name to refer to this call in my email. (I would not want to claim employment with that lowlife either). PS. Why do I have to get a code from my email to comment now?
Sorry to hear that. :( One of mine is Ron Johnson. It feels kind of pointless, but I’m contacting him anyway because he needs to be reminded that all of us are constituents, not just those who agree with him.
Which Senators? Those Republicans who are in the Majority rubber stamping all of the truly horrific Cabinet positions? HA!! Pay attention. The Republican Senators are in cahoots with Trump/Musk
I don’t disagree with you. The more things we let even GOPers representing us know we are upset about the better. OTOH, Speaker Mike Johnson is an attorney. So are Cruz and John N. Kennedy of LA, and so on. Their legal knowledge or access to advice doesn’t change what they want to do.
We all know what Cruz is like. Johnson was a legal architect of trying to stop the 2020 certification.
Kennedy said yesterday that Dems are screaming “about process” when we should be focused on substance and making change. He made it sound as though stomping on the law and Constitution were minor things not worthy of attention — or even mention.
This is as a clear statement of what corporate leaders and managers think about workers as you can get. I wonder how those union workers nationwide feel about that - especially those that either sat out the election or jumped to the MAGA side.
Just an FYI. NYTimes headline today- “Inside Musk’s Powerplay To Reshape Government “
Musk is violating every tenet of democratic government and nobody is doing anything. Somebody needs to simply arrest him. Let it go to the Supreme Court and let those right wing robed lunatics try to defend this one.
It's a honey trap in many ways and hapless persons are undoubtedly getting sucked in. Not an offer with any "legal" standing but once signed, who is going to spend the time and money they don't have to go to court. Where any finding will be treated the indignity of the "3 D's" that have been so effective in the Insurance and other business industries around the country and our sitting president/dictator/puppet and figure head bully.
In fact, It's a sorting process, those who are smart enough to be, in the know, will ignore the offer and have a chance at having a job when the dust clears. Those that aren't, probably aren't sharp enough to be in their present positions anyway. The only unforeseen problem is... some persons, who are of a criminal nature will see through this offer and decline. They may still remain...
To trust anything these offerings have to say is a fool hearty acceptance of, in reality and outcome, a false offering, it offers nothing to anyone. It is a cruel method of taking advantage of employees who are untrained in legal terminology. Their recourse is an illusion of the misconception that our court system will protect them from this con.
It seems our somewhat criminal and now full time hapless/helpless government and judicial system has been overtaken by the more sophisticated criminals within the corporate sector.
It seems the fate of the Earth and its inhabitants, all creatures great and small, has past the tipping point. These con artists truly believe they have it all figured out...although they don't understand the fact that history always presents a few uncontrollable variables that require attention, for which their is no control, but wherein a balanced force appliedby an empowered caring sector has a dampening effect. Oligarchy... has no room for a caring sector. It is an existential threat to their power. It must be oppressed and eliminated.
Sorry guys.
Unfortunately it will take time (decades) before this new regime will collapse, as it always does, and in the meantime great numbers of people will suffer and die. Human greed doesn't ever get eliminated from our species behavior. Perhaps we can be spared some of the suffering by an asteroid, nuclear devistation, or quick climate related disaster?
Something to think about...all earths civilizations before us, thought they had it figured out...
25 years ago I worked for a large corporation, and I saw a similar buy-out offer. ** The intention was to get rid of the dead-wood...guess what? Many superstars left and got hired by competitors and the deadwood remained. The business knowledge lost was immeasurable.
** except the terms were pretty good, and the corporation honored them. Had I been old enough, I would have taken it.
Is it possible that because Musk is not legally an "agent" the contract can be considered null and void? It boggles the mind that this offer should have any legal standing.
The 20K who took the deal got played. They are going to be left with nothing. No buyout. No pension. No severance. Nothing. And they will not be able to do a damn thing about it.
Let us hope they are all Republicans who voted for Trump/Musk
How does taking this offer impact retirement benefits? Articles tend to say an employee who was planning to retire might take the offer but it is a resignation not a retirement. In private business this would matter a lot with respect to benefits like health insurance.
I'd be interested in seeing a demographic breakdown of those who have accepted.
Throw in their pay grade and position for shits and giggles.
The threat of being fired may have pushed some over the edge on this. I don’t know how it works if they are represented by a union, especially when this was not negotiated with the union. Then there are going to be employees who have little seniority who figure they get nothing if they’re pushed out anyway.
I was laid off in 2017 by a corporate giant. Very similar deal. In order to get my severance and my 401K I had to drop all claims against the corporation, including being on the floor with asbestos and the company didn't get a building permit for the renovation. A whistle blower alerted the rest of us. We were right across the street from City Hall. So, there was no excuse. This is how corporate America operates. Musk is part of it. So confusing language is to be expected, imho. The flabby elephant in the room is why is Musk allowed to do any of this by law?
Musk is clearly an extra-legal participant.
Being a former union worker I imagine the federal workers are being advised against this contract. For some, this may sound like a new way to call in sick, and in a pool of 2.4m, there is bound to be some who call in sick a lot. Will the Trump admin claim a victory with a 1% acceptance? Probably. And those that leave this way will be spotlighted as under performing, the "buyout" a test to weed out the bottom feeders.
I have been in a close situation when, as a New York City teacher, the city several times went broke and suggested people voluntarily hand in their resignations, usually that meant older teachers who were close to or beyond retirement age. This is usually the case, the culled workers are the older staff. Bye bye experience, bye bye institutional knowledge, bye bye mentors.
There is still a short time left. If you are one of the 20K who took this deal, contact your union rep immediately!
Remember this:
Consideration is a promise , performance, or forbearance bargained by a promisor in exchange for their promise. Consideration is the main element of a contract . Without consideration by both parties, a contract cannot be enforceable.
Ok, but if a contract is signed or agreed to by the parties, it is valid.
So I don't quite understand what you mean. Help?
Legally a contract involves a "consideration," defined as an agreed benefit, a thing that could be a promise etc. in exchange for something of value to the other party, like money or a physical item or another promise.
So if one party offers nothing to the other, a legal "contract" cannot be made and there is nothing to enforce.
Both parties could sign off on the written agreement on paper but it would be meaningless.
I saw this type of separation contract with an employer in the 1980s. The company offered nothing in return of value, but it was upheld in several courts. The parties knew what they were getting, which was not being laid off or fired. That was the so-called value.
Right. It's called an 'arms length' contract. Both parties are presumed to be competent to make their decisions. If one of them gets screwed, too bad. This applies most cruelly when one of the parties has or should have a fiduciary obligation to the other. Courts like to side with the screwor, not the screwee.
Even if both parties agree if one side gets nothing, not to mention one side has all the power and drafted the contract a court can say it’s unenforceable. Think of a person without a lawyer signing a prenup where the other side’s lawyer is explaining the terms.
Suing the government when it is breached, as it likely will be, is impossible with permission from congress. The state/government is "sovereign."
The Senate *MUST* stand up to this. Contact your Senators ASAP and demand they take action! Many Senators have a legal background or know competent attorneys.
Sadly, Nancy one of my senators is a member of the newly formed DOGE caucus., the other is ancient. Phoning them won't help. Have you guessed yet who they are? Ernst and Grassley.
Actually phoning Republicans is EXACTLY what we need to do. Office staff track the most commented topics of each day's call. Look up ALL the office phone numbers for your Senators and Representatives in your state. Note the zip code of one of those phone numbers. Then call with a message similar to: "I am a voter in _______ zip code**. YOU let Elon Musk steal the US Treasury system. I am holding YOU responsible for his illegal actions. Stop collaborating with this coup now." I am calling all the Republicans in my state right now. Mostly I have to leave a voice mail (very cathartic!) but if someone answers I ask that they take my message to the Senator or Representative. The more calls you make and the more days you make them, the more likely it will add to the count of messages coming in and demanding action.
Despite what I wrote, I have joined the legions of callers to legislators. Still haven't gotten through to Ernst, but will keep trying.
My spouse and I contacted our senators and representative by call and email. At least we tried to. And they are all republican. I had to talk to a staffer who would not give me a first name to refer to this call in my email. (I would not want to claim employment with that lowlife either). PS. Why do I have to get a code from my email to comment now?
I hope constituents are organizing rallies in front of their offices. People are doing that in other states.
Sorry to hear that. :( One of mine is Ron Johnson. It feels kind of pointless, but I’m contacting him anyway because he needs to be reminded that all of us are constituents, not just those who agree with him.
Which Senators? Those Republicans who are in the Majority rubber stamping all of the truly horrific Cabinet positions? HA!! Pay attention. The Republican Senators are in cahoots with Trump/Musk
Yes, but - see response to Carmen. They have to hear from us again and again. If we don't pushback they will roll over us.
I don’t disagree with you. The more things we let even GOPers representing us know we are upset about the better. OTOH, Speaker Mike Johnson is an attorney. So are Cruz and John N. Kennedy of LA, and so on. Their legal knowledge or access to advice doesn’t change what they want to do.
We all know what Cruz is like. Johnson was a legal architect of trying to stop the 2020 certification.
Kennedy said yesterday that Dems are screaming “about process” when we should be focused on substance and making change. He made it sound as though stomping on the law and Constitution were minor things not worthy of attention — or even mention.
This is as a clear statement of what corporate leaders and managers think about workers as you can get. I wonder how those union workers nationwide feel about that - especially those that either sat out the election or jumped to the MAGA side.
Musk, Thiel, Vance all follow Curtis Yarwin’s vision to destroy the us govt by 🚨”retiring all govt employees” 🚨
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/watch-rachel-maddow-lays-out-why-you-should-care-about-jd-vance-s-real-agenda-220521029601
"page not found"! Which day? I record all of her shows.
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/watch-rachel-maddow-lays-out-why-you-should-care-about-jd-vance-s-real-agenda-220521029601
Just an FYI. NYTimes headline today- “Inside Musk’s Powerplay To Reshape Government “
Musk is violating every tenet of democratic government and nobody is doing anything. Somebody needs to simply arrest him. Let it go to the Supreme Court and let those right wing robed lunatics try to defend this one.
Classic Trump. Scam the employees, then refuse to pay them. UFB
It's a honey trap in many ways and hapless persons are undoubtedly getting sucked in. Not an offer with any "legal" standing but once signed, who is going to spend the time and money they don't have to go to court. Where any finding will be treated the indignity of the "3 D's" that have been so effective in the Insurance and other business industries around the country and our sitting president/dictator/puppet and figure head bully.
In fact, It's a sorting process, those who are smart enough to be, in the know, will ignore the offer and have a chance at having a job when the dust clears. Those that aren't, probably aren't sharp enough to be in their present positions anyway. The only unforeseen problem is... some persons, who are of a criminal nature will see through this offer and decline. They may still remain...
To trust anything these offerings have to say is a fool hearty acceptance of, in reality and outcome, a false offering, it offers nothing to anyone. It is a cruel method of taking advantage of employees who are untrained in legal terminology. Their recourse is an illusion of the misconception that our court system will protect them from this con.
It seems our somewhat criminal and now full time hapless/helpless government and judicial system has been overtaken by the more sophisticated criminals within the corporate sector.
It seems the fate of the Earth and its inhabitants, all creatures great and small, has past the tipping point. These con artists truly believe they have it all figured out...although they don't understand the fact that history always presents a few uncontrollable variables that require attention, for which their is no control, but wherein a balanced force appliedby an empowered caring sector has a dampening effect. Oligarchy... has no room for a caring sector. It is an existential threat to their power. It must be oppressed and eliminated.
Sorry guys.
Unfortunately it will take time (decades) before this new regime will collapse, as it always does, and in the meantime great numbers of people will suffer and die. Human greed doesn't ever get eliminated from our species behavior. Perhaps we can be spared some of the suffering by an asteroid, nuclear devistation, or quick climate related disaster?
Something to think about...all earths civilizations before us, thought they had it figured out...
25 years ago I worked for a large corporation, and I saw a similar buy-out offer. ** The intention was to get rid of the dead-wood...guess what? Many superstars left and got hired by competitors and the deadwood remained. The business knowledge lost was immeasurable.
** except the terms were pretty good, and the corporation honored them. Had I been old enough, I would have taken it.
Unless these contracts are ruled to be unenforceable for some reason, I don't see what recourse these workers who accepted the deal have. Awful.
Is it possible that because Musk is not legally an "agent" the contract can be considered null and void? It boggles the mind that this offer should have any legal standing.
The CIA has put out the same offer to all employees.