According to Florida Governor Ron DeSantis (R), textbook publishers are attempting to indoctrinate Florida students by incorporating "woke" concepts into social studies textbooks — in violation of state laws prohibiting certain kinds of instruction on race and gender. The DeSantis administration says it is scrutinizing these textbooks for "
I as a young man born in Chicago in 1960, first woke up when at 5 years of age, I asked my Sunday school teacher what color Jesus was. I had my reasons you see. She (a "well intentioned" white lady) said that "Jesus has no color."
So I looked at her, then the painting of Jesus on the wall depicting Jesus as a slight, white man with BIG soulful blue eyes and blonde hair, then back at her, then back at the painting. I said nothing.
She in turn, looked at the painting, then at me with my brown skin and kinked hair, then at the painting again. She said nothing.
Been "WOKE" ever since and I'm not ever going back to sleep.
Brilliant story! Thank you for sharing your childhood experience with us. I have a feeling that 5 year old you taught that Sunday school teacher a very important lesson that day!
When Conservative accuse schools of indoctrination, they are telling us what they seek to do. Free marketers do the same. One has to wonder how well the conservatives have indoctrinated their followers in the aspects of the Lewis Powell Memo and the teachings of Jame Buchanan. We are seeing the results.
Followers here need to listen to Deja News - Rachel Maddow's new podcast as it aligns so well with Judd's work. The second episode shows that what Desantis is doing has been done before.
Yes, it says (among many other things) to "give information about" early childhood masturbation. This is because 100% of human parents or caregivers of 0-4 year olds WILL catch their child touching themselves. Rather than screaming or spanking the baby/toddler, which many parents fall to as a first resort, the recommendation is as basic as taking a breath and saying "yes, it feels good to touch our own body and there's nothing wrong with that. We need to do it in our own private room and with clean hands." At the same time, this matrix suggests teaching your 0-4 year old about respecting boundaries of others, and about saying no to unwanted touch from others. These are EXTREMELY important skills.
Or, I guess you'd like to see parents yell and hit their children to force them to stop through pain and fear, teaching them that it's freakish and they have already ruined their own soul doing it. Or not to speak about it at all, ensuring that the toddler doesn't learn good boundaries and is vulnerable to abuse.
Heather-- Don't waste your time on tritorch, whoever it might be. Tri has discovered Popular Information as a target rich site at which he (a troll) can own the libs. Tri is the perfect example of what a mind, marinated in the bile of the dis-information industry, eventually becomes. Education and literacy are no defense against ideology-driven ignorance. Tri probably has no real interest in the education of Florida's children. Readers of Popular Information readers should just ignore Tri and his cherry-picked research and faux expertise on child development. Tri will likely respond to this comment with something that he/she considers a clever rejoinder.
That is quite a pretzel you've twisted yourself in to "justify" an adult teaching a child about masturbation and away from their parents at that. This reminds me of other crimes throughout history that have been "justified" with similar reasoning.
Again, the emotional lies you're trying to seed into folks here are regarding a matrix of early childhood education in an entire part of the world where, even if the highest performing countriss are taken togrther with the lowest, child outcomes you probably care about like
-abuse rates
-trauma prevalence
-teen pregnancy
-child and teen suicide
-child and teen murder
Are far, far better than they are here, where you are trying to defend the elimination of all.mentions of slavery and LGBTQ issues by changing the subject entirely away.
Teaching 0-4 about masturbation is likely to sexually activate them when they are at their most vulnerable and emotionally immature, and they will likely become victims of sexual assault in droves as a result - as they seek out partners young and old.
False and completely disproven by all evidence. Also, an extremely emotional, unhinged and hysterical argument free from any rationality. For anyone else who might encounter this thread, one can also see from the rest of your body of work, which is a string of conspiracy theories and open bigotry, that this is consistent with your quality of thought everywhere. Sorry, bud. This is the worst, most humiliating intellectual laziness I've seen this week.
I found that comment fascinating, and went and looked at the source. They are statements of fact not what to teach at ages 0-4. For example, “CSE does not promote masturbation. However, in our documents, WHO recognizes that children start to explore their bodies through sight and touch at a relatively early age. This is an observation, not a recommendation.” and yes, I’ve been babysat both of my grandchildren. I can verify that touches your body is between zero and four is normal. I’m not sure if that’s what you meant, but this is what I found.
I appreciate that you looked into it, thank you Joan. From the handbook - the guidelines have masturbation introduced to children aged 0-4.
"The following matrix has been designed to give an overview about the topics which should be introduced to specific age groups. The matrix is structured according to different age groups and comprises eight thematic main categories.
...
Give information about: Enjoyment of pleasure when touching ones own body. Early childhood masturbation.
Children explore their bodies. That's a fact. The material you are quoting is from sexuality education in Europe. America is far too prudish and religious to ever embrace this material. and what does this have to do with Florida?
It's notable that you are spreading fearful, emotional lies about a matrix that is used in a part of the world where emotional and health outcomes for children are FAR better by every measure than they are here.
Also notable: you're spreading these emotional lies in an article about how Americans are banning a SINGLE MENTION of a court case that has the world LGBTQ in it, and a SINGLE IMAGE of slavery.
Because you're deliberately seeding fear through fictionalizing and catastrophizing a topic you don't have any evidence of the practical application of. Plus, nobody else thinks that teaching a child the correct context and appropriate boundaries around an action they're already taking is morally wrong, as you are trying to lie to us that it is.
How is this indoctrination? And I hope you understood how normal this is when raising your children. Or, if you choose to have children in the future, maybe knowing this will help educate you as to not reprimand your child for some thing that is natural.
How is teaching 0-4 year olds about masturbation not indoctrination? You believe that a teacher in an isolated environment instructing 0-4 year olds about pleasuring themselves is kosher? If yes, how?
That is not happening. You referenced the world health organization, and their stance on masturbation. Nobody is teaching 0 to 4 year olds how to masturbate. Thay is some sick non-logic that you’re presenting. And you still have not explained what indoctrination is. That’s a buzz word that is easily thrown around and it makes no sense in this context.
Masturbation is normal. The world health organization is not teaching children in Florida. It’s a guide. You do not understand and your gaslighting. This whole crazy BS that a greedy governor is imposing on the residents of Florida. So he can get votes. That’s all this is about - votes and money. And cutting and pasting from a dictionary is not what I was looking for. You can keep ranting, but the majority know that you make no sense and therefore do not take you seriously.
Well, there's less hysteria in most European cultures about sexual development, but there's no reason to think it would be in a textbook. More likely it would be in the teacher's notes.
What they need to do in Florida is just do away with Social Studies, World History, American History, or any other courses that teach how this, and other countries were developed, live, or how their people live.
I’m a Christian man, and I’m sick and tired of people telling me that DeSantis isn’t doing anything wrong. All he’s doing is bringing the teaching to what the Bible is teaching.
That might be so, but that’s NOT how this world has developed . That’s NOT, how this country was built. That’s NOT how others in this world live.
Having a textbook banned because it discusses the Civil War, slavery in this country, or something that doesn’t fit into DeSantis’ world, or thinking, isn’t right. A lot of our first presidents were Soave owners. Slavery went in in this country until the Civil War was fought. In some states it went in after the war because the slaves lived on doing what they had been doing before so they chose not to leave it.
DeSantis banned a history book because it had one image in the entire book which revealed a child’s buttocks. Now, isn’t that shameful! The image was that of a family living in the Bush in Africa! At their home, in the Bush, in Africa. The mother, and her children were outside the home, wearing their natural attire, and the child’s buttocks were visible outside his loin cloth he was wearing.
Now, my question to Ron DeSantis is a really simple one. When was the last time he visited a beach in his state? Jacksonville, Palm Beach, Panama Beach, Hillsborough Beach, Miami Beach, any of his beaches where tourist, and people that live in his state go.
The last time I went to one was years ago, and I’m positive it’s the same, or worse, that it was then. The women, and half the men, were walking around, or sunbathing, with bathing suits on that had all their buttocks exposed. Women lying on the beach sunbathing with their top’s unhooked, or had in such a skimpy top that the inky thing covered was the nipple. Everything else was exposed.
Mind you, I’m a man. I damn sure didn’t object to their attire in the beaches, clubs, or anywhere else. If they wanted to get nude, it made no difference to me because I stayed in a nudist camp when I was in high school and college living in Boynton Beach, Palm Beach County. So, seeing women, men, children, walking around, swimming, living, wearing no clothing was nothing to me. Didn’t bother me one bit.
My point here is this. If we aren’t going to teach the Civil War, slavery, or how a culture lived someplace in this country, or world, then just forget about teaching World History or American History. You will not be able to teach about the Indians, or their culture, because of their attire, and their way of life when this country was discovered and developing.
So there is no need in having history classes as part of the curriculum of schools, colleges, or universities.
DeSantis is pushing HIS ideology on the people of Florida. And he’s preaching his ideology on the campaign trail in his speeches. IF he is elected president then we will have another Trump in the highest office in this country, and we will never have our way of life as we know it. He will continue he with ridding the country of Democracy and our Constitution.
Daniel, I think you've arrived at DoucheSantis aim all along: not to teach accurate history at all.
Some people feel that the only way to love your country is to lie about it, mythologize it, lie for it, paint over its wrongs and repeat mantras about its greatness. Other countries in our past did that too, notably Nazi Germany. It's not coincidental that Nazis in America are holding pro-RDS rallies and he's not denounced one of them. Not. A. Single. One.
I remember his office initially tried to blame it on ‘the libs’ claiming no one knew if they were nazis, and so on. After that they decided to just be quiet and take whatever support he can get?
Typical. How could anyone possibly have known that a group proudly displaying Nazi swastikas and yelling White supremacist slogans were Nazis? Obviously, any group with such a glaring lack of cognition shouldn't be in charge of governing others.
One thing he leaves off his resume - the time he spent teaching in HS in 2001-02. He was well like by most students according to some reports ... except the ones who thought it was weird or creepy that he partied with the students. Donnie briefly tried to exploit that last year but must have decided his own problems made it a step too far. DEsantis’ political views, arrogance and cruelty were already apparent.
This article has the same info as others (without photos of him with female or other students).
Florida should just outright ban all K-12 education and close all their schools. They can then take the money they've saved and open Indoctrination Centers where all citizens can attend misinformation reprogramming sessions. There they can learn things that really matter - science is a hoax, white people - mostly men - are the embodiment of God; a gun is a beautiful communication tool and a sign of patriotism; only Republicans can win elections - if anyone else claims to win, they have stolen said election; girls are for reproducing; minorities are for labor (with NO water breaks); books are for people who don't believe in God; poverty is a natural state; only those closest to God (e.g., GQP legislators) deserve access to healthcare; and the truth is what white Florida males say it is. Seems like this is where they're headed.
It is, and the South has unfortunately been there before. Between Reconstruction and the Civil rights era, it was a one-party captive state shere the former slaveholding wealthy made as much or more money literally slumlording and keeping their captive tenants sick, illiterate and exhausted for almost a century. And it's guttingly nightmarish.
I have read many books on the topic of Reconstruction. There is SO MUCH I never knew until I reached adulthood, that graphically explains why many things are the way they are right now, and how we all got to this place in our history.
It’s very scary to think that just one man, and a wholly unlikeable and antisocial one at that, could create an entire generation of kids who will not believe that slavery existed. Not just a whitewashed version but they will converse with other adults when they’re older and proclaim that slavery in the US never happened. We have to get rid of this awful awful man.
I know right? It was bad enough when that Texas book company tried to sneak past slavery by describing "African guest-workers" who came to America pick cotton.
Off topic, but relevant to your comment. Here's how the VA Museum of History describes slave life:
"The majority of enslaved men, women, and children provided agricultural labor for their enslavers. Trained craftspeople worked in skilled trades such as coopering, blacksmithing, and carpentry. A smaller group of men and women cooked, cleaned, served meals, and raised the children of the enslaver’s family. On Sundays, enslaved individuals tended to their own gardens and livestock provided by their enslavers, practiced religion, and engaged with family and friends."
Hi Patt. You know that right of it. What ever could be wrong about just being honest and acknowledging the past, if nothing else? These things happened.
They don't have to make "white children feel bad" about themselves. However, they should be teaching tools , continually in use, so we don't have to revisit the worst aspects of our shared past, as we appear to be doing here in the US now.
I suspect the unsaid is that the adults are angry about feeling guilt, shame, psychological whatever and suppression of truth is their solution.
History, noun. The branch of knowledge dealing with past events. a continuous, systematic narrative of past events as relating to a particular people, country, period, person, etc
Herodotus (484 BCE – c. 425 BCE) is considered the "father of history" for his “The Histories” about the period in which he live.
Florida has a history. We forget because at the time it didn’t have much to offer that it was the 3rd state (a slave state) to join the Confederacy.
In the 1950s it was rigidly segregated. Something I’d not experienced in the north. It was so painfully obvious I asked ‘dangerous’ questions as a pre-schooler which drew panicky ‘shushing’ from my mother.
There is a written account of participating in a demonstration by a white professor who travelled to St. Augustine. Dr. King (Sr) was traveling there at the request of local advocates. I was particularly struck by what the writer thought his 3rd charge was (P. 2). Most accounts of the spring of 1964 when MLK was in St Augustine reference what was occurring in the background. A ‘beach house’ where MLK stayed was shot up; he was moved frequently between private homes. He was arrested for ‘civil disobedience’ in St. Augustine. Moved to Jacksonville the next day.
• Finally, we were “written up.” I am not sure what our charges were, but I believe they are 1) trespassing, 2) conspiring to break the law, 3) being undesirable guests. ....
.... Conditions here [in St. Augustine] are simply awful. The Negroes are in mortal fear. Some are afraid of being shot by the Klansmen. Dr. Hayling’s life is in real danger. Negroes have had their houses burned down. Just today Klansmen shot up a restaurant that integrated yesterday, and a Ford garage which has hired a father of a child who has gone to the white school was damaged. I’m just beginning to feel what an awful life these Negroes have. ...
So in a nutshell, a text is “woke” & unfit if it includes facts and real-life family types that white supremacists don’t like. Got it.
He’s desperately pushing anti-woke while ignoring his states very real issues. Maybe that’s part of the reason why he is Polling at 20% vs post-indictment Trumps 54% w/Repubs.
A friend of mine is passed away several years ago was a major political player both in our state and later at the national level. He said something I find interesting in light of Donnie’s success. Ray said -- If voters have a choice between a candidate who is the ‘the original’ and a “lite” or copycat version, they will stick with the original.
Yes, that makes sense. These gop candidates, esp Ron, are trying to walk the line of ditching trump but securing his base voters.
DeSantis doesn’t even believe in himself, which is why he changed FL state constitution to allow him to remain governor, even as he runs for president. Coward wants to make sure he has a fall back plan and a grifting gig. That doesn’t speak of confidence!
His polling vs trump dropped from 29% to the 20% now. He’s not doing well with his anti woke schtick.
I grew up in a Southern State seeping with the over toned "Lost Cause." I was in the first desegregated schools. In the 70s and 80s I thought we were growing out of this mentality. My 4 kids graduated HS in the past 18 years. Imagine my surprise around the Thanksgiving table last fall when they discussed what they learned in college and as adults what had been left out of their social studies curriculmn. My State is purple after a few years of blue and a whole lot of red.
Not bragging. I have 4 smart kids. Just thinking the reason why so many people believe the BS DeSantis, Abbott and here Youngkin, (and others in all 50 states spew) is unquestioned doesn't revolve around Critical Race Theory, but around Critical Thinking Skills. Sadly it's lacking in our country in about 74 million people.
Ron DeSantis and his lackeys are doing everything they can to so devalue and dumb down education in Florida from Kindergarten to college that the next generation will be totally unable to compete in the 21st century. At which point they will attempt to capitalize politically by blaming woke companies for refusing to hire those who can't do the job and woke universities in other states who refuse to accept students without the requisite academic preparation. And it will work, at least for a while.
Check out private school funding by FL. It is a multi-faceted scheme he expanded. For instance the tax credit for donors (including corporations) is huge. The state functions like a ‘pass through’. Then there is how the voucher system works compared to the hype and the pressure on public schools as populations grow but funding is shifted.
I’ve been watching it as someone who worked with students and was licensed for all areas of Social Studies (including HS economics).
Our state used FL as a template and had to revise it (even with a veto proof red legislature they barely overrode the veto). The tax credit $$ in the budget was capped but increases the next year if it is met. One of the changes the our legislature made was to add a requirement to make sure the cap did not automatically rise. The Catholic organizations and schools pushed hard for this as some other demonizations opposed it. Didn’t matter. The Ky Supreme Court struck it down as violating the state constitution which is fairly specific about public funding going only to public schools unless the voters say otherwise.
Weirdly the KY legislature chose not to have a ballot initiative for a Constitutional Amendment. Kind of undermines the idea it is popular statewide.
The march to destroy what can be taught continued unabated. The candidate for Lt. Gov in the GOP primary also chairs the Ed Committee and authors controls what goes to the floor.
He was on the ticket with Gov candidate, Kelly Craft who made an abysmal primary showing.
Because it has grown to $1.7B in Florida there was a lot of trepidation.
Hahaha. I see the wayward keyboard ‘auto fill’ put in ‘demonizations” ... perhaps Freudian. It should be “denominations” (although they were demonized for opposing).
I take it as a sign of where FL was going before DEsantis ramped it up ... and that his voters don’t care as long as they believe there is $$ and control coming their way. IOW, 1 mommy can ban a textbook and get a voucher or tax credit.
I have to wonder: in order to ban a book because it makes someone "feel guilt, anguish, or other forms of psychological distress for actions, in which he or she played no part, committed in the past by other members of the same race," don't they have to find an actual person who actually DOES feel that way? Like, a white kid who's been interviewed by a licensed psychologist who will testify that the kid legitimately feels distressed because he read in a textbook that there were white enslavers? It seems pretty clear to me that if every kid in Florida who reads about slavery reacts by thinking "The antebellum South was a glorious society and I'm proud of my ancestors for fighting to preserve it," then the material doesn't make anyone feel any psychological distress. So don't they have to come up with some actual kid who actually exists and who actually feels guilty about the subject matter before they ban the book? And even if they find such a kid, don't they have to show that he feels that way BECAUSE OF THE BOOK, as opposed to because his parents feel that way and he picked it up from them? Because if they don't have to do any of that stuff, then this whole "feels psychological distress" thing is just a prettied-up way of saying "says that slavery might have had one or two down sides."
Notice they're not concerned that any Black, Latino, or Native American kids have felt bad about their race. Their psychological distress in Florida classrooms doesn't matter one bit.
Same as being concerned about embryos and fetuses but don't care a whit about the sanctity of a life after it leaves the womb.
This is a difficult topic, that of race here in the states. I agree with you from my perspective of being a black man and having lived in both the north and the south.
Thank you for your obviously heart-felt statements of fact.
Thank you for this critically important report! We are living in a two-realities America... one based on progress and understanding and one based on fear and regression. There are dark forces that want to - literally - destroy The Enlightenment by claiming "knowledge is dangerous"... leaving out the fact that God gave us Free Will (or, if you don't believe in God, just accept the fact that in every situation we have the ability to choose... whether it is north or south, chocolate or vanilla, or to cause pain or understanding.
The facts or history are that slavery has existed in America... racism still exists... homosexuality has existed since the time of ancient Greece.. etc. Teaching that these things exist does NOT promote them. It EDUCATES people ... allowing them to make informed choices in their lives. To think that information offered in school books will cause a choice of "evil over good" is to deny where the values used by the person making the choice come from. I consciously chose NOT to be like my father from a very early age... probably before I was one years old... because I saw that he assaulted my mother (both emotionally and physically). My eyes told me he was wrong because I saw the suffering my mother endured from those early days onward. By the time I was in school, my values were set: Causing pain and suffering was wrong. Helping create healing and love was right. Had I been shown anything in school that dealt with "family units" or "self love" or something else about how people treat each other or themselves, I would have judged the value of that information based on the values I brought with me.
You want to talk about "grooming"? Let's talk about children being taught how to love others and themselves rather than hate others and themselves FOR WHO THEY ARE. I want children to be taught to love not hate. If you are in Moms For Liberty, then you are advocating hate and division... and I am AGAINST the "grooming" you are engaged in.
Just another example of one of the basic steps towards a fascist government. If anyone thinks DeSantis is a good alternative to Trump, just remember Republicans used to say the government should stay our of citizens homes, bedrooms etc. Now you have government controlling what you can read, what health care you can provide your own child, how you may run your business etc. Is this what you want?
Thank you for revealing a little more about "Brown Shirt" Ron DeSantis and his plans to make FL and the USA unlike the free and progressive country that people from all over the world admire, and if they have wealth, send their Chinese, Saudi Arabian, and Indian children for higher education. DeSantis has an agenda based on fear and a need for control. Now, reading some of the commentary, what is happening? A reader apparently has a fear of pedophilia, and is finding data that serves European countries (where daycare for children from birth through teens is available and prevalent) can be used to encourage sexual abuse from 0 to 16. How about discussing why DeSantis and some conservatives are so threatened about what could simply described as normal (babies...we spend time cleaning their bottoms, so of course care takers touch and clean those parts if doing a good job), and truthful (about slavery and Jim Crow and racial prejudice)?
I as a young man born in Chicago in 1960, first woke up when at 5 years of age, I asked my Sunday school teacher what color Jesus was. I had my reasons you see. She (a "well intentioned" white lady) said that "Jesus has no color."
So I looked at her, then the painting of Jesus on the wall depicting Jesus as a slight, white man with BIG soulful blue eyes and blonde hair, then back at her, then back at the painting. I said nothing.
She in turn, looked at the painting, then at me with my brown skin and kinked hair, then at the painting again. She said nothing.
Been "WOKE" ever since and I'm not ever going back to sleep.
Brilliant story! Thank you for sharing your childhood experience with us. I have a feeling that 5 year old you taught that Sunday school teacher a very important lesson that day!
One can only hope. That child should have grown up differently.
EVERY ACCUSATION IS A CONFESSION.
Public education educates.
Conservatives seek to indoctrinate.
When Conservative accuse schools of indoctrination, they are telling us what they seek to do. Free marketers do the same. One has to wonder how well the conservatives have indoctrinated their followers in the aspects of the Lewis Powell Memo and the teachings of Jame Buchanan. We are seeing the results.
Followers here need to listen to Deja News - Rachel Maddow's new podcast as it aligns so well with Judd's work. The second episode shows that what Desantis is doing has been done before.
They are the grand masters of projecting what they do onto the Dems.
Speaking of indoctrination, here is the World Health Organization's Sex Curriculum for 0-4 year olds:
"Enjoyment of pleasure when touching ones own body. Early childhood masturbation."
Page 38 of the WHO Regional Office for Europe and BZgA Standards for Sexuality Education in Europe: https://www.bzga-whocc.de/fileadmin/user_upload/BZgA_Standards_English.pdf [pdf]
Yes, it says (among many other things) to "give information about" early childhood masturbation. This is because 100% of human parents or caregivers of 0-4 year olds WILL catch their child touching themselves. Rather than screaming or spanking the baby/toddler, which many parents fall to as a first resort, the recommendation is as basic as taking a breath and saying "yes, it feels good to touch our own body and there's nothing wrong with that. We need to do it in our own private room and with clean hands." At the same time, this matrix suggests teaching your 0-4 year old about respecting boundaries of others, and about saying no to unwanted touch from others. These are EXTREMELY important skills.
Or, I guess you'd like to see parents yell and hit their children to force them to stop through pain and fear, teaching them that it's freakish and they have already ruined their own soul doing it. Or not to speak about it at all, ensuring that the toddler doesn't learn good boundaries and is vulnerable to abuse.
Heather-- Don't waste your time on tritorch, whoever it might be. Tri has discovered Popular Information as a target rich site at which he (a troll) can own the libs. Tri is the perfect example of what a mind, marinated in the bile of the dis-information industry, eventually becomes. Education and literacy are no defense against ideology-driven ignorance. Tri probably has no real interest in the education of Florida's children. Readers of Popular Information readers should just ignore Tri and his cherry-picked research and faux expertise on child development. Tri will likely respond to this comment with something that he/she considers a clever rejoinder.
What a disingenuous, topsy-turvey AH this torch thing is. I hope that he goes away soon. Perhaps if we all place him on block/ignore?
"Tri is the perfect example of what a mind, marinated in the bile of the dis-information industry, eventually becomes."
How so? I think you may have this backwards.
"Education and literacy are no defense against ideology-driven ignorance."
My only ideology is to seek truth and share it. The left vs right paradigm is a control mechanism.
"Tri probably has no real interest in the education of Florida's children."
I very much do.
"Information readers should just ignore Tri and his cherry-picked research and faux expertise on child development."
What data is cherry-picked?
That is quite a pretzel you've twisted yourself in to "justify" an adult teaching a child about masturbation and away from their parents at that. This reminds me of other crimes throughout history that have been "justified" with similar reasoning.
Again, the emotional lies you're trying to seed into folks here are regarding a matrix of early childhood education in an entire part of the world where, even if the highest performing countriss are taken togrther with the lowest, child outcomes you probably care about like
-abuse rates
-trauma prevalence
-teen pregnancy
-child and teen suicide
-child and teen murder
Are far, far better than they are here, where you are trying to defend the elimination of all.mentions of slavery and LGBTQ issues by changing the subject entirely away.
The guidelines are focused on European education.
Teaching 0-4 about masturbation is likely to sexually activate them when they are at their most vulnerable and emotionally immature, and they will likely become victims of sexual assault in droves as a result - as they seek out partners young and old.
False and completely disproven by all evidence. Also, an extremely emotional, unhinged and hysterical argument free from any rationality. For anyone else who might encounter this thread, one can also see from the rest of your body of work, which is a string of conspiracy theories and open bigotry, that this is consistent with your quality of thought everywhere. Sorry, bud. This is the worst, most humiliating intellectual laziness I've seen this week.
Educate yourself.
I found that comment fascinating, and went and looked at the source. They are statements of fact not what to teach at ages 0-4. For example, “CSE does not promote masturbation. However, in our documents, WHO recognizes that children start to explore their bodies through sight and touch at a relatively early age. This is an observation, not a recommendation.” and yes, I’ve been babysat both of my grandchildren. I can verify that touches your body is between zero and four is normal. I’m not sure if that’s what you meant, but this is what I found.
I appreciate that you looked into it, thank you Joan. From the handbook - the guidelines have masturbation introduced to children aged 0-4.
"The following matrix has been designed to give an overview about the topics which should be introduced to specific age groups. The matrix is structured according to different age groups and comprises eight thematic main categories.
...
Give information about: Enjoyment of pleasure when touching ones own body. Early childhood masturbation.
It is right there in black and white.
Children explore their bodies. That's a fact. The material you are quoting is from sexuality education in Europe. America is far too prudish and religious to ever embrace this material. and what does this have to do with Florida?
Nothing he likes to troll here for attention and distraction. We’ve seen it all before.
Children touch themselves.
Is this bad?
If so, why?
A child touching themselves and an adult teaching them to masturbate in school are two very different things. Nice attempt at conflating them though.
It's notable that you are spreading fearful, emotional lies about a matrix that is used in a part of the world where emotional and health outcomes for children are FAR better by every measure than they are here.
Also notable: you're spreading these emotional lies in an article about how Americans are banning a SINGLE MENTION of a court case that has the world LGBTQ in it, and a SINGLE IMAGE of slavery.
Get a life.
How is quoting WHO guidelines spreading fearful, emotional lies?
Because you're deliberately seeding fear through fictionalizing and catastrophizing a topic you don't have any evidence of the practical application of. Plus, nobody else thinks that teaching a child the correct context and appropriate boundaries around an action they're already taking is morally wrong, as you are trying to lie to us that it is.
How is this indoctrination? And I hope you understood how normal this is when raising your children. Or, if you choose to have children in the future, maybe knowing this will help educate you as to not reprimand your child for some thing that is natural.
How is teaching 0-4 year olds about masturbation not indoctrination? You believe that a teacher in an isolated environment instructing 0-4 year olds about pleasuring themselves is kosher? If yes, how?
Have you read, 'Brave New World'?
That is not happening. You referenced the world health organization, and their stance on masturbation. Nobody is teaching 0 to 4 year olds how to masturbate. Thay is some sick non-logic that you’re presenting. And you still have not explained what indoctrination is. That’s a buzz word that is easily thrown around and it makes no sense in this context.
Masturbation is normal. The world health organization is not teaching children in Florida. It’s a guide. You do not understand and your gaslighting. This whole crazy BS that a greedy governor is imposing on the residents of Florida. So he can get votes. That’s all this is about - votes and money. And cutting and pasting from a dictionary is not what I was looking for. You can keep ranting, but the majority know that you make no sense and therefore do not take you seriously.
Ranting? Asking for evidence and answering questions is now ranting. This is amazing.
Masturbation is not normal for 0-4 year olds, and only a sick mind would claim otherwise.
"Nobody is teaching 0 to 4 year olds how to masturbate."
Teaching them about masturbation is in the WHO guidelines. How do you know it is not being taught by schools that follow them?
Indoctrination fits in this context. Here is the defintion:
To instruct in a body of doctrine or principles.
To imbue with a partisan or ideological point of view.
To instruct in the rudiments or principles of learning, or of a branch of learning; to imbue with learning; to teach; -- often followed by in.
Go back to your black hole - you're not even CLOSE to the perimeter of anythiing!
Yes he is. He is close to the razor edge of his anus or ay-noos if you sprechen his Deutsch.
What do you disagree with?
Well, there's less hysteria in most European cultures about sexual development, but there's no reason to think it would be in a textbook. More likely it would be in the teacher's notes.
I have no interest in other people's sex lives so long as they do not involve children.
Follow the money.
Because I believe the textbooks DeSantis DID approve were from one of his major donors.
It will be interesting to see if those were reviewed by the same "citizens' committee."
A few years back he only approved books from a company run by a guy named Youngkin. Yeah, the now Governor of Virginia
Good comment. Those folks aren't driven just by ideology. There is also the coin of the realm to consider!
I wonder if the Post or Times has pursued that angle. Probably not, too much clickbait with the culture war angle.
God forbid the WaPo or the NYT attack Republicans.
Someone might accuse them of being liberal.
🙄
Hahaha. I get the WaPo and I agree.
Let me know if they ever get rid of that weasel Thiessen.
Because I gave up my subscription of 30 years because he was pushing the Big Lie.
Bet!
What they need to do in Florida is just do away with Social Studies, World History, American History, or any other courses that teach how this, and other countries were developed, live, or how their people live.
I’m a Christian man, and I’m sick and tired of people telling me that DeSantis isn’t doing anything wrong. All he’s doing is bringing the teaching to what the Bible is teaching.
That might be so, but that’s NOT how this world has developed . That’s NOT, how this country was built. That’s NOT how others in this world live.
Having a textbook banned because it discusses the Civil War, slavery in this country, or something that doesn’t fit into DeSantis’ world, or thinking, isn’t right. A lot of our first presidents were Soave owners. Slavery went in in this country until the Civil War was fought. In some states it went in after the war because the slaves lived on doing what they had been doing before so they chose not to leave it.
DeSantis banned a history book because it had one image in the entire book which revealed a child’s buttocks. Now, isn’t that shameful! The image was that of a family living in the Bush in Africa! At their home, in the Bush, in Africa. The mother, and her children were outside the home, wearing their natural attire, and the child’s buttocks were visible outside his loin cloth he was wearing.
Now, my question to Ron DeSantis is a really simple one. When was the last time he visited a beach in his state? Jacksonville, Palm Beach, Panama Beach, Hillsborough Beach, Miami Beach, any of his beaches where tourist, and people that live in his state go.
The last time I went to one was years ago, and I’m positive it’s the same, or worse, that it was then. The women, and half the men, were walking around, or sunbathing, with bathing suits on that had all their buttocks exposed. Women lying on the beach sunbathing with their top’s unhooked, or had in such a skimpy top that the inky thing covered was the nipple. Everything else was exposed.
Mind you, I’m a man. I damn sure didn’t object to their attire in the beaches, clubs, or anywhere else. If they wanted to get nude, it made no difference to me because I stayed in a nudist camp when I was in high school and college living in Boynton Beach, Palm Beach County. So, seeing women, men, children, walking around, swimming, living, wearing no clothing was nothing to me. Didn’t bother me one bit.
My point here is this. If we aren’t going to teach the Civil War, slavery, or how a culture lived someplace in this country, or world, then just forget about teaching World History or American History. You will not be able to teach about the Indians, or their culture, because of their attire, and their way of life when this country was discovered and developing.
So there is no need in having history classes as part of the curriculum of schools, colleges, or universities.
DeSantis is pushing HIS ideology on the people of Florida. And he’s preaching his ideology on the campaign trail in his speeches. IF he is elected president then we will have another Trump in the highest office in this country, and we will never have our way of life as we know it. He will continue he with ridding the country of Democracy and our Constitution.
Think about that!
Daniel, I think you've arrived at DoucheSantis aim all along: not to teach accurate history at all.
Some people feel that the only way to love your country is to lie about it, mythologize it, lie for it, paint over its wrongs and repeat mantras about its greatness. Other countries in our past did that too, notably Nazi Germany. It's not coincidental that Nazis in America are holding pro-RDS rallies and he's not denounced one of them. Not. A. Single. One.
I remember his office initially tried to blame it on ‘the libs’ claiming no one knew if they were nazis, and so on. After that they decided to just be quiet and take whatever support he can get?
Typical. How could anyone possibly have known that a group proudly displaying Nazi swastikas and yelling White supremacist slogans were Nazis? Obviously, any group with such a glaring lack of cognition shouldn't be in charge of governing others.
Thank you, Daniel, for truly adding to a discussion worthy of Judd and his team.
Isn't it odd that DeSantis was a History major at Yale?! If any of his professors are alive, I'd love to hear what they have to say.
One thing he leaves off his resume - the time he spent teaching in HS in 2001-02. He was well like by most students according to some reports ... except the ones who thought it was weird or creepy that he partied with the students. Donnie briefly tried to exploit that last year but must have decided his own problems made it a step too far. DEsantis’ political views, arrogance and cruelty were already apparent.
This article has the same info as others (without photos of him with female or other students).
https://advocatechannel.com/ron-desantis-was-a-problematic-high-school-teacher
Hey Valerie. They'd probably line up to deliver a punch to his face, ala Richard Spencer.
It appears to me the only “Grooming” being done is by the Republicans. I see goose stepping Fourth of July and stiff armed salutes not to far away.
Florida should just outright ban all K-12 education and close all their schools. They can then take the money they've saved and open Indoctrination Centers where all citizens can attend misinformation reprogramming sessions. There they can learn things that really matter - science is a hoax, white people - mostly men - are the embodiment of God; a gun is a beautiful communication tool and a sign of patriotism; only Republicans can win elections - if anyone else claims to win, they have stolen said election; girls are for reproducing; minorities are for labor (with NO water breaks); books are for people who don't believe in God; poverty is a natural state; only those closest to God (e.g., GQP legislators) deserve access to healthcare; and the truth is what white Florida males say it is. Seems like this is where they're headed.
It is, and the South has unfortunately been there before. Between Reconstruction and the Civil rights era, it was a one-party captive state shere the former slaveholding wealthy made as much or more money literally slumlording and keeping their captive tenants sick, illiterate and exhausted for almost a century. And it's guttingly nightmarish.
I have read many books on the topic of Reconstruction. There is SO MUCH I never knew until I reached adulthood, that graphically explains why many things are the way they are right now, and how we all got to this place in our history.
It’s very scary to think that just one man, and a wholly unlikeable and antisocial one at that, could create an entire generation of kids who will not believe that slavery existed. Not just a whitewashed version but they will converse with other adults when they’re older and proclaim that slavery in the US never happened. We have to get rid of this awful awful man.
I know right? It was bad enough when that Texas book company tried to sneak past slavery by describing "African guest-workers" who came to America pick cotton.
Off topic, but relevant to your comment. Here's how the VA Museum of History describes slave life:
"The majority of enslaved men, women, and children provided agricultural labor for their enslavers. Trained craftspeople worked in skilled trades such as coopering, blacksmithing, and carpentry. A smaller group of men and women cooked, cleaned, served meals, and raised the children of the enslaver’s family. On Sundays, enslaved individuals tended to their own gardens and livestock provided by their enslavers, practiced religion, and engaged with family and friends."
Happy Sunday slaves! Horrifying.
https://virginiahistory.org/learn/story-of-virginia/chapter/slavery
Has anyone read "Invisible Man" by Ralph Ellison?
? Valerie here, not Mary Cat...
What an amazing book full of stories that could form maybe 6 novels.
I am so sorry. Doing too much at once I'm afraid Valerie. In any case, agreed!
Hi Patt. You know that right of it. What ever could be wrong about just being honest and acknowledging the past, if nothing else? These things happened.
They don't have to make "white children feel bad" about themselves. However, they should be teaching tools , continually in use, so we don't have to revisit the worst aspects of our shared past, as we appear to be doing here in the US now.
I suspect the unsaid is that the adults are angry about feeling guilt, shame, psychological whatever and suppression of truth is their solution.
History, noun. The branch of knowledge dealing with past events. a continuous, systematic narrative of past events as relating to a particular people, country, period, person, etc
Herodotus (484 BCE – c. 425 BCE) is considered the "father of history" for his “The Histories” about the period in which he live.
Florida has a history. We forget because at the time it didn’t have much to offer that it was the 3rd state (a slave state) to join the Confederacy.
In the 1950s it was rigidly segregated. Something I’d not experienced in the north. It was so painfully obvious I asked ‘dangerous’ questions as a pre-schooler which drew panicky ‘shushing’ from my mother.
The Civil Rights Era in FL? Not what DEsantis wants students to learn. https://civilrightstrail.com/state/florida/
There is a written account of participating in a demonstration by a white professor who travelled to St. Augustine. Dr. King (Sr) was traveling there at the request of local advocates. I was particularly struck by what the writer thought his 3rd charge was (P. 2). Most accounts of the spring of 1964 when MLK was in St Augustine reference what was occurring in the background. A ‘beach house’ where MLK stayed was shot up; he was moved frequently between private homes. He was arrested for ‘civil disobedience’ in St. Augustine. Moved to Jacksonville the next day.
• Finally, we were “written up.” I am not sure what our charges were, but I believe they are 1) trespassing, 2) conspiring to break the law, 3) being undesirable guests. ....
.... Conditions here [in St. Augustine] are simply awful. The Negroes are in mortal fear. Some are afraid of being shot by the Klansmen. Dr. Hayling’s life is in real danger. Negroes have had their houses burned down. Just today Klansmen shot up a restaurant that integrated yesterday, and a Ford garage which has hired a father of a child who has gone to the white school was damaged. I’m just beginning to feel what an awful life these Negroes have. ...
https://mennonitewriting.org/journal/7/4/letter-st-augustine-jail/#page2
A reporter’s take on what happened and MLK’s hearing in Duval County (Jacksonville):
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/opinion/columns/mike-clark/2011/01/17/look-back-st-augustine-melee-put-king-duval-court/15918015007/
I should clarify that the quote at the • is from the professor in his writings.
This guy wants to be president. Lord help us if he's successful.
So in a nutshell, a text is “woke” & unfit if it includes facts and real-life family types that white supremacists don’t like. Got it.
He’s desperately pushing anti-woke while ignoring his states very real issues. Maybe that’s part of the reason why he is Polling at 20% vs post-indictment Trumps 54% w/Repubs.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2023/06/18/trump-beating-desantis-republican-primary-2024-poll/70327796007/
A friend of mine is passed away several years ago was a major political player both in our state and later at the national level. He said something I find interesting in light of Donnie’s success. Ray said -- If voters have a choice between a candidate who is the ‘the original’ and a “lite” or copycat version, they will stick with the original.
Yes, that makes sense. These gop candidates, esp Ron, are trying to walk the line of ditching trump but securing his base voters.
DeSantis doesn’t even believe in himself, which is why he changed FL state constitution to allow him to remain governor, even as he runs for president. Coward wants to make sure he has a fall back plan and a grifting gig. That doesn’t speak of confidence!
His polling vs trump dropped from 29% to the 20% now. He’s not doing well with his anti woke schtick.
I grew up in a Southern State seeping with the over toned "Lost Cause." I was in the first desegregated schools. In the 70s and 80s I thought we were growing out of this mentality. My 4 kids graduated HS in the past 18 years. Imagine my surprise around the Thanksgiving table last fall when they discussed what they learned in college and as adults what had been left out of their social studies curriculmn. My State is purple after a few years of blue and a whole lot of red.
Not bragging. I have 4 smart kids. Just thinking the reason why so many people believe the BS DeSantis, Abbott and here Youngkin, (and others in all 50 states spew) is unquestioned doesn't revolve around Critical Race Theory, but around Critical Thinking Skills. Sadly it's lacking in our country in about 74 million people.
Ron DeSantis and his lackeys are doing everything they can to so devalue and dumb down education in Florida from Kindergarten to college that the next generation will be totally unable to compete in the 21st century. At which point they will attempt to capitalize politically by blaming woke companies for refusing to hire those who can't do the job and woke universities in other states who refuse to accept students without the requisite academic preparation. And it will work, at least for a while.
Yet he sent his kids to private school, I believe.
Check out private school funding by FL. It is a multi-faceted scheme he expanded. For instance the tax credit for donors (including corporations) is huge. The state functions like a ‘pass through’. Then there is how the voucher system works compared to the hype and the pressure on public schools as populations grow but funding is shifted.
I’ve been watching it as someone who worked with students and was licensed for all areas of Social Studies (including HS economics).
Our state used FL as a template and had to revise it (even with a veto proof red legislature they barely overrode the veto). The tax credit $$ in the budget was capped but increases the next year if it is met. One of the changes the our legislature made was to add a requirement to make sure the cap did not automatically rise. The Catholic organizations and schools pushed hard for this as some other demonizations opposed it. Didn’t matter. The Ky Supreme Court struck it down as violating the state constitution which is fairly specific about public funding going only to public schools unless the voters say otherwise.
Weirdly the KY legislature chose not to have a ballot initiative for a Constitutional Amendment. Kind of undermines the idea it is popular statewide.
The march to destroy what can be taught continued unabated. The candidate for Lt. Gov in the GOP primary also chairs the Ed Committee and authors controls what goes to the floor.
He was on the ticket with Gov candidate, Kelly Craft who made an abysmal primary showing.
Because it has grown to $1.7B in Florida there was a lot of trepidation.
https://edlawcenter.org/assets/Florida/Florida-Private-Context.pdf
* Of roughly 2,300 private schools accepting vouchers, 69% are unaccredited, 58% are religious and 30% are for-profit
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2023/04/24/florida-private-school-voucher-expansion/11688114002/
Hahaha. I see the wayward keyboard ‘auto fill’ put in ‘demonizations” ... perhaps Freudian. It should be “denominations” (although they were demonized for opposing).
Wow! A full 69% unaccredited? That is amazing for all of the wrong reasons.
I take it as a sign of where FL was going before DEsantis ramped it up ... and that his voters don’t care as long as they believe there is $$ and control coming their way. IOW, 1 mommy can ban a textbook and get a voucher or tax credit.
And that 1 mommy aspect is infuriating.
I have to wonder: in order to ban a book because it makes someone "feel guilt, anguish, or other forms of psychological distress for actions, in which he or she played no part, committed in the past by other members of the same race," don't they have to find an actual person who actually DOES feel that way? Like, a white kid who's been interviewed by a licensed psychologist who will testify that the kid legitimately feels distressed because he read in a textbook that there were white enslavers? It seems pretty clear to me that if every kid in Florida who reads about slavery reacts by thinking "The antebellum South was a glorious society and I'm proud of my ancestors for fighting to preserve it," then the material doesn't make anyone feel any psychological distress. So don't they have to come up with some actual kid who actually exists and who actually feels guilty about the subject matter before they ban the book? And even if they find such a kid, don't they have to show that he feels that way BECAUSE OF THE BOOK, as opposed to because his parents feel that way and he picked it up from them? Because if they don't have to do any of that stuff, then this whole "feels psychological distress" thing is just a prettied-up way of saying "says that slavery might have had one or two down sides."
Notice they're not concerned that any Black, Latino, or Native American kids have felt bad about their race. Their psychological distress in Florida classrooms doesn't matter one bit.
Same as being concerned about embryos and fetuses but don't care a whit about the sanctity of a life after it leaves the womb.
It's all bulls**t cover for Fascism
This is a difficult topic, that of race here in the states. I agree with you from my perspective of being a black man and having lived in both the north and the south.
Thank you for your obviously heart-felt statements of fact.
The right wing will always push and push against any limits on their plan for fascism in America.
Revealed: The MAGAT* Republicans’ three-step plan for classic fascism
https://www.rawstory.com/raw-investigates/maga-republicans/
Thank you for this critically important report! We are living in a two-realities America... one based on progress and understanding and one based on fear and regression. There are dark forces that want to - literally - destroy The Enlightenment by claiming "knowledge is dangerous"... leaving out the fact that God gave us Free Will (or, if you don't believe in God, just accept the fact that in every situation we have the ability to choose... whether it is north or south, chocolate or vanilla, or to cause pain or understanding.
The facts or history are that slavery has existed in America... racism still exists... homosexuality has existed since the time of ancient Greece.. etc. Teaching that these things exist does NOT promote them. It EDUCATES people ... allowing them to make informed choices in their lives. To think that information offered in school books will cause a choice of "evil over good" is to deny where the values used by the person making the choice come from. I consciously chose NOT to be like my father from a very early age... probably before I was one years old... because I saw that he assaulted my mother (both emotionally and physically). My eyes told me he was wrong because I saw the suffering my mother endured from those early days onward. By the time I was in school, my values were set: Causing pain and suffering was wrong. Helping create healing and love was right. Had I been shown anything in school that dealt with "family units" or "self love" or something else about how people treat each other or themselves, I would have judged the value of that information based on the values I brought with me.
You want to talk about "grooming"? Let's talk about children being taught how to love others and themselves rather than hate others and themselves FOR WHO THEY ARE. I want children to be taught to love not hate. If you are in Moms For Liberty, then you are advocating hate and division... and I am AGAINST the "grooming" you are engaged in.
Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Yes, indeed. Thank you for that excellent comment Steven. A "wiser way indeed!"
Just another example of one of the basic steps towards a fascist government. If anyone thinks DeSantis is a good alternative to Trump, just remember Republicans used to say the government should stay our of citizens homes, bedrooms etc. Now you have government controlling what you can read, what health care you can provide your own child, how you may run your business etc. Is this what you want?
Thank you for revealing a little more about "Brown Shirt" Ron DeSantis and his plans to make FL and the USA unlike the free and progressive country that people from all over the world admire, and if they have wealth, send their Chinese, Saudi Arabian, and Indian children for higher education. DeSantis has an agenda based on fear and a need for control. Now, reading some of the commentary, what is happening? A reader apparently has a fear of pedophilia, and is finding data that serves European countries (where daycare for children from birth through teens is available and prevalent) can be used to encourage sexual abuse from 0 to 16. How about discussing why DeSantis and some conservatives are so threatened about what could simply described as normal (babies...we spend time cleaning their bottoms, so of course care takers touch and clean those parts if doing a good job), and truthful (about slavery and Jim Crow and racial prejudice)?
You know that miscreant to whom you referred has to be a paid troll. Has to be. Who has the time to write such detailed screeds?