The facts are that Trump and his co-conspirators are the masters of violent rhetoric and incitement of violence against their opponents, just ask anyone who has tried to hold Trump accountable for his life of crime. Every tweet, every statement, every brain fart accusing Democrats and the left of inciting this attack, by the usual - a young white man with an AR-15 - is both projection and confession. And if we had a responsible press in this country, their comments would be ignored or rejected out of hand, but we don't and they won't. This will be the both sides do it issue of the campaign.
Peter, You are so correct. Republicans can be classified as a terrorist group. They support a seditionist inciter, are proponents of more guns for all, put out threats on a daily basis, lie incessantly. Yet we see no justice for trump. Anyone else would be in prison. He has colluded with Putin and Orban. I fail to find any level of compassion for these mobsters. Seeing justice served would cool things off for us.
In the “old days” the media reporting such comments would result in those “leaders” being censured, ostracized and replaced by voters. We live in 🙃 times.
Exactly!! They may have bent the truth a bit, but never operated in such a "thuggish" manner. Imo, the 2016 election & campaign used outright lies & innuendo to an unsettling degree and that tendency was largely fed by Republicans & trump sycophants. The conspiracy theories, the outright lies, sadly took us down a path that I fear will be difficult to return from for some. And honestly, if we examine it, a significant portion of the behavior was led by republican candidates & some legislators. This has to end & folks need to analyze what they're reading & hearing for veracity respect to factual or lies. Enough aren't doing that.
But sadly we do know just about every statement trump makes, as a general rule, is tainted by inaccuracies &/ or outright lies. It is his m.o. and has been such much of his adult life. He learned well the old saying, " A lie will go halfway around the world, before the truth is putting on it's boots." Sad..that's the case. But that's the difference between the folks that attempt to verify the facts, while others just shoot off their mouths. The latter takes no effort at all. You just flap your jaws about the first thing you hear, that you're in agreement with.
Trump has created a cult of personality wherein people trust his lies and cannot be made to see reason. Whatever Trump tells them becomes truth, everything else is a lie, or "fake news."
[[Senator Mike Lee (R-UT) urged Biden to "take the political temperature down" by ordering "all federal criminal charges against President Trump be dropped, and to ask the governors of New York and Georgia to do the same."]]
Hey, Mike, what's the other side of your filthy little quid pro quo? What will you and other Republicans do if we DON'T drop all charges against Mango Mussolini and deny the American people justice? The technical term for what you're doing here is "extortion," and it's a felony. But that should suit you as a Republican just fine.
Or conversely, how about Trump having a come to Jesus moment after his near death experience and renouncing violence, dropping his campaign, and admitting his whole life has been a wasted opportunity to do something good in the world with all his inherited wealth…..that would lower the temperature too……Naaah!
I’m sorry, but in a country awash in guns, with virtually no restrictions on who can obtain, types of firearms permitted or where guns can be taken, how is any of this surprising?
And when trump was elected, did he, his administration or republican legislators do anything to stop the cycle of the availability of guns or propose new legislation to lessen the availability of guns or even to foster national background checks.
How many times in how many ways does Trump have to be found a guilty fraudster & thief before it dawns on the GOP that Trump can’t be trusted with our national security?
Surprsing as that may be even after the republican party shift from kinda-forward-looking-at-times to the intense, laser-like focus on the Orange One's rear.
We can be grateful that Trump was NOT assassinated. His expression of violence and ill will generates more expressions of lethal violence in its wake--his promotion of January 6th proves this point.
The pathetic case of the 20 year old would be killer illustrates another example of how constant cruel-hearted bullying leads to extreme violence. Most of those in our recent past who've slaughtered others with Automatic Rifles have been outcasted and bullied. [Hatred and a deep lack of love impacts all of us.]
Much will be made of the shooters $15 donation to the democratic party in Jan 2021 but how much will be said about him actually registering as a republican in Sep 2021?
Adam, sorry, I just saw this: It was to Progressive Turnout Project, via Act Blue. I’m not sure whether age is a factor in political donations, but he wasn’t yet 18.
“FBI searches for motive behind shooting” is the funniest headline - there are probably 100,000,00 different motives to look at. Trump is the least public spirited person in the entire country - ever.
For all we know, Trump sexually assaulted a woman (or girl) that the shooter cared about. Or maybe Trump refused to pay for services provided by the shooter's grandparents or cousins, and it bankrupted them. Long before Trump invaded our politics with his agenda of hatred, he had cut a swath of victims through our society that beggars belief. Motives abound.
This environment of extreme violence, threats, sedition, numerous indictments for crimes are all on the republican party. No one wants to see gun fire anywhere, especially in any crowd. However, these same idiots called Sandy Hook a hoax, made jokes about Nancy Pelosi’s husband after his attack. Trump and the republican party do nothing but inflame and incite Hitler rhetoric. MTG & others IMMEDIATELY fired up threatening rhetoric. The Democratic politicians spoke out against violence.
I put NOTHING past these domestic terrorists. MTG, BOEBERT & others have Christmas cards with the family holding military grade weapons. They are monsters. THEY created this. If you want to see people settle down then we need to see justice! Trump, J6 terrorists, most members of the republican Congress supported sedition! Make the appropriate legal arrests and the rest of us will settle down! These Republicans stop every attempt at real gun control. I think it is only fair that they are shown what the dangers are that they have placed so many others in.
I’t’s always good to wait a week before discussing what happened, but the REPUBLICANS didn’t wait 3 minutes before naming specific names, Biden et al. The supporters at the rally are supporting a 34 count felon, rapist, seditionists, gun proponents. Sorry, there will be no sympathy from me.
The fact is that we have an old man with a competent team running against an old man with a criminal team. The criminal team may not have authorized an assassination attempt but they are going to go to town with suppositions about the Biden campaign having done so.
Will this be the blow-hard's maga-martyr moment?
I don't want to joke about this but pretty much ALL media treat the upcoming election like the cliff-hanger at the end of an episode of 1960's era Batman show.
Actually, this whole race is more like professional wrestling on TV. Good guys, bad guys, idiots with signs in the audience who take sides, and everything being designed behind the scenes...
Now that the Heritage Foundation is involved they will have much more competent foot soldiers and middle management but they are also fully staffed with nincompoops up top.
Well said . Premature theories is the life blood of the media. They cannot wait to report the factual news. They need to guess what the news is and put it out before the other salivating media outlets. As for using this to squelch any and all criticism of their candidate is part of the GOP operating manual these days. Maybe some GOP voters will take pause and reflect on who is responsible for the ramped up level of hatred that drives someone to attempt to kill another. Maybe they will stay home in November or maybe even cast their vote for a decent candidate.
George, people who support a 34-count felon and deadly seditionist inciter, do not pause and reflect. If they’re still with trump at this point, they will double down. This is the damage caused by not getting trump in prison in the first place.
George, you are correct that premature theories are the lifeblood of today’s media landscape & you are so close to correctly defining the media’s actual methodology. But they don’t “guess what the news is,” they guess at which version of the story will garner the most attention & they run with that.
TFG arguably a victim of his own rhetoric; and MAGA R’s trying to stifle criticism of TFG and to glorify him. Honest debate on his record and issues is appropriate.
Joseph, this is what they promote daily. Guns, violence, dangerous conspiracy theories, supporting a danger FELON as their candidate. Causing the deaths of others. That IS what guns are for. Guns are to kill people. But this country is the only advanced (?)one to REFUSE to look at removing guns from public. This doesn’t mean zero guns…it means we must do what every civilized country on planet earth has already done. We are total outliers!
I disagree. Guns are merely tools. It's the attitudes behind using ANY tool to kill another person that has to be addressed and changed. No one seems to look at that.
Guns are tools to kill! What an ignorant comment you make. We are the only advanced nation on planet earth to have these idiotic loose gun laws and allowance for any citizen to own one. Stop with excuses!
I knew this week was going to be an absolute disaster. Republicans literally hate America and everything it stands for. They are pathetic political hacks, who will lie, cheat, and steal their way to victory. They are sub-human, evil people.
One comment I heard recently was the the former president is the only person who has the ability to reorient the violent rhetoric, and he has a unique opportunity to accomplish this on a huge platform during the Republican convention. It's a remarkable coincidence this event is very soon and could, whether sincere or not, enable the electorate to step back from the precipice of anarchy. All of us need a reset to take a breath and ask ourselves some serious questions about the apocalyptic rhetoric now in vogue.
[[All of us need a reset to take a breath and ask ourselves some serious questions about the apocalyptic rhetoric now in vogue.]]
No, all of us don't. Republicans do. Responsible Democrats are not engaging in apocalyptic rhetoric; rather, as Heather says, they are stating facts: Donald Trump is a threat to democracy who belongs in prison. The Republican Party, with Project 2025, is a threat to democracy as well as the health of the planet and many other desirable things. Saying these things is not apocalyptic. It is a rational response to _behavior_, not just rhetoric, that is, itself, apocalyptic.
This is the authoritarian playbook in action. Illegal to criticize the Dear Leader. Get used to it if Trump wins, which he won't and all of these snakes will go back into their holes.
I think the object is to have more Dems act responsibly. There seems to be confusion around rhetoric that incites and rhetoric that is factual. Maybe confusion about what needs to be said.
Frankly by now people know whether they believe DJT belongs in prison or not. That topic isn’t moving anyone to change whether they support DJT, oppose him or feel apathetic about voting. The same for ‘threat to democracy’. None of it is moving people who should be persuadable because the same rhetoric pours out of both ‘camps.’ I
It’s the underlying facts that matter and can be persuasive.
In point of fact, up until Saturday's assassination attempt, Biden was gaining a little bit in the polls because Project 2025 got more MSM coverage last week than it had gotten every other week combined since November. That tells me we need to continue hammering on 1) the dangers presented by Projecdt 2025 and 2) the connections between Trump and the plan's authors. Feel free to disagree, but that's here I'm at on messaging right now. The beauty part of my plan is that while the language may be a little apocalyptic, that apocalypticism is also quite factual. Climate scientists are saying now that it's game over if Trump gets re-elected.
I did not say otherwise. I said there was confusion basically referring to the boundaries. Maybe I should have said “some Dems” instead of “more” but it doesn’t hurt anyone to be conscious of what they are saying & how it is received. I’ve seen passive aggressive language about wishing for death or ‘a taste of their own medicine’ remarks aimed at GOPers. That feeds the beast.
DJT and crew use those comments to justify themselves. It’s a circular argument accomplishing nothing. Their enrage to engage strategy incites violence and uses ‘alternative facts’ to activate the “lizard brain”. It is what happens when people are enraged or otherwise emotionally overwhelmed. The 1st word describing choices of the brain at that point begin with “fight.” Reasoning is suppressed.
I agree pointing out the dangers of P2025 or a political judiciary (reinforced again today) etc. are necessary. How apocalyptic the language needs to be to move people is hard to quantify. Saying what people can do is helpful in such messages because it directs the emotion & energy to positive actions.
We'll agree to disagree about whether Dems are also using "end of democracy" and other apocalyptic catch phrases in the current political environment. A large sector the electorate is simply worn out and the tit-for-tat between the parties and their proxies is unhelpful to lowering the temperature among all US citizens. I understand the feeling of pointing fingers, but at some point (like right now) both sides must ask to what end will this approach lead. I would argue it will eventually lead to more political violence.
There is nothing apocolyptic about what dems are saying. trump IS a threat to democracy. He's also inept when it matters. (Rewatch the Covid presser where he muses about injecting light and bleach into bodies.) trump knew he lost the election, yet he rallied forces with the big lie to attck our capitol. He hangs with dictators. He's friends with Bannon and Stone, both pardoned criminals. If anything, Dems speech doesn't fully capture all the awfulness of trump. Republicans excuse gun violence. Democrats embrace gun control. There IS a difference and there IS an election in four months.
If you read all of the article you’ll see that some dodo Dem engaged in rhetoric that was totally irresponsible in the wake of the incident. There is room for Dems to tamp down the off message hot rhetoric & focus on our goals. One goal should not be to feed into the idea that we are the same.
Regardless, appearing to be like the opposition does not win over voters. It wears them out and pushes them to the couch on Election Day. Only voters can save us from the a DJT future.
Yes, offering tasks to help with the cause that are doable for many people helps motivate and engage. It redirects a lot of that negative energy from frustration and anger. Gavin Newsom is recruiting people for outreach mostly by texting - nationwide.
“The Republican District Attorney in Butler County, PA, should immediately file charges against Joseph R. Biden for inciting an assassination,” Rep. Mike Collins, R-Ga., wrote on X."
"Sen. Rick Scott, R-Fla., who is running to be the next Senate Republican leader, wrote that “Democrats and liberals in the media have called Trump a fascist. They’ve compared him to Hitler. “This isn’t some unfortunate incident,” Scott's post continued. “This was an assassination attempt by a madman inspired by the rhetoric of the radical left.”
“For weeks Democrat leaders have been fueling ludicrous hysteria that Donald Trump winning re-election would be the end of democracy in America,” Scalise said in a statement. “Clearly we’ve seen far left lunatics act on violent rhetoric in the past. This incendiary rhetoric must stop.”
"We are in a battle between GOOD and EVIL," Greene wrote on X. "The Democrats are the party of pedophiles, murdering the innocent unborn, violence, and bloody, meaningless, endless wars."
Learnin4life, calling this tit for tat is outrageous! Go read PROJECT 2025 that only REPUBLICANS are pursuing. If you’re over 6 years old, you have heard the conspiracy theories, watched a deadly sedition, heard these people incite terrorism and laugh at Sandy Hook as a hoax. Among supporting a 34-count FELON. Their threats are to specific people and democrats as a group. Tit for tat on both sides BS!
This isn't tit-for-tat, dear. Trump already has launched one failed insurrection and is threatening to launch another if he doesn't like the outcome of the election. And Project 2025, drawn up by some of the people closest to Trump, speaks for itself. What Democrats are stating about him is not "apocalyptic rhetoric," but fact. Your attempt to draw some kind of moral equivalence between what Democrats are saying and what Republicans are saying is at best ill-informed and at worst a Russian psyop.
Are we warming up for an authoritarian government where you're wrong to criticize and tell the truth?? There is no equivalence between GOP tactices and Dem tactics as much as some people want to try. Stating the truth is not a call to violence. Criticism of the other party or other candidate is not a call to violence. Making claims about what a politican might do is not a call to violence. Calls to violence are calls to violence. Using actual violent thetoric is a call to violence. Using violent imagery is a call to violence. The picture of Biden hog-tied in the back of a pick up truck. Gosar's picture of him killing Ocasio-Crotez. Trumps image of him taking a baseball bat to Alvin Bragg's head. Trump saying there will a bloodbath if he doesn't win. House GOP'ers wearing AR-15 lapel pins. Mark Robinson saying some folks need killing. trump saying the 2nd smendment people could take care of Hillary Clinton picking judges. (Thanks to Heather Cox Richardson for some of these. There are so many it's hard to remember them all.) There is comparison.
Who said Dems could not state the truth or criticize the opposition? Or that violent rhetoric is a main characteristic of Dems? I believe too much is being read into a call to cool things off.
Maybe you’ve not seen violent or rhetoric from people claiming to be liberals or Dems, on social media including forums like this. It exists. Maybe you missed an unprompted chant at a Biden event “lock him up” which was quickly hushed. The Dem donor’s spokesperson quoted in the article had the grace to apologize for his conspiracy theory.
No, not all calls to violence or to provoke violence are overt. Calling people animals leads to permission to be violent but is not a direct call to violence. It is also designed to create outrage. Neither is wearing an AR-15 pin. It is a double message and designed to create outrage.
There is no reason we can’t discuss disagreements on major issues without it. For instance, Judge Cannon just dismissed the classified document case. There is no reason not to talk about WHY or HOW we disagree or view it is as threat.
Who said that Dems could not state the truth or criticize? JD Vance, for one, a front runner for GOP VP. In the confusion immediately after the shooting, MAGA Republicans blamed the Democrats for the violence. “Today is not just some isolated incident,” Ohio senator J.D. Vance, who is in the running to be Trump’s vice presidential pick, posted on social media. He said: “The central premise of the Biden campaign is that President Donald Trump is an authoritarian fascist who must be stopped at all costs. That rhetoric led directly to President Trump’s attempted assassination.” Representative Mike Collins of Georgia called for a Republican district attorney to “immediately file charges against Joseph R. Biden for inciting an assassination.” Indeed, he said, “Joe Biden sent the orders.” (Thanks to Heather Cox Richardson for these examples.)
Interesting. I thought the angst was about “both sidesism”, being held to an higher standard and denial that some Dems say inappropriate unhelpful and worse - including conspiracy theories immediately after the shootings.
Vance was quoted in this article also. I saw the remarks from Collins reported soon after the incident. Vance, for example, uses rhetorical tricks. When he adds “at all costs” it is an implied call to violence. I believe anyone using that language should stop. Yes, they are trying to make certain criticism that damages them off limits. Although I think it would be wiser for Dems to talk about the elements of fascism pushed by the GOP under DJT than get in a back and forth about “you’re a fascist, no you’re a fascist.”
These 2 characters and others of their ilk offer opportunities to contrast who we are, our goals & record — as long as we don’t fall into the same mud pit.
Unfortunately i'm surprised this hasn't happened before, what with the huge numbers of easily accessible guns in america. Texas & floriDUH just did away with any requirements to register weapons. the Repukkkelikkkan NRA puppets take the bribes and block any gun control. The Orange Antichrist spews hate, bigotry, intolerance, divides our country, makes fun of disabled reporters, rapes women (& children), kidnapped & put immigrant children in cages, lies pathologically about the 2020 election, defrauds americans for millions, is it really any surprise. The only antidote is to vote OUT all republicans up & down ballot. They are a party of hate and fascism and cannot be trusted to govern America fairly & sanely.
The facts are that Trump and his co-conspirators are the masters of violent rhetoric and incitement of violence against their opponents, just ask anyone who has tried to hold Trump accountable for his life of crime. Every tweet, every statement, every brain fart accusing Democrats and the left of inciting this attack, by the usual - a young white man with an AR-15 - is both projection and confession. And if we had a responsible press in this country, their comments would be ignored or rejected out of hand, but we don't and they won't. This will be the both sides do it issue of the campaign.
Peter, You are so correct. Republicans can be classified as a terrorist group. They support a seditionist inciter, are proponents of more guns for all, put out threats on a daily basis, lie incessantly. Yet we see no justice for trump. Anyone else would be in prison. He has colluded with Putin and Orban. I fail to find any level of compassion for these mobsters. Seeing justice served would cool things off for us.
In the “old days” the media reporting such comments would result in those “leaders” being censured, ostracized and replaced by voters. We live in 🙃 times.
In the old days politicians didn't talk like mafia thugs.
Exactly!! They may have bent the truth a bit, but never operated in such a "thuggish" manner. Imo, the 2016 election & campaign used outright lies & innuendo to an unsettling degree and that tendency was largely fed by Republicans & trump sycophants. The conspiracy theories, the outright lies, sadly took us down a path that I fear will be difficult to return from for some. And honestly, if we examine it, a significant portion of the behavior was led by republican candidates & some legislators. This has to end & folks need to analyze what they're reading & hearing for veracity respect to factual or lies. Enough aren't doing that.
But sadly we do know just about every statement trump makes, as a general rule, is tainted by inaccuracies &/ or outright lies. It is his m.o. and has been such much of his adult life. He learned well the old saying, " A lie will go halfway around the world, before the truth is putting on it's boots." Sad..that's the case. But that's the difference between the folks that attempt to verify the facts, while others just shoot off their mouths. The latter takes no effort at all. You just flap your jaws about the first thing you hear, that you're in agreement with.
Trump has created a cult of personality wherein people trust his lies and cannot be made to see reason. Whatever Trump tells them becomes truth, everything else is a lie, or "fake news."
[[Senator Mike Lee (R-UT) urged Biden to "take the political temperature down" by ordering "all federal criminal charges against President Trump be dropped, and to ask the governors of New York and Georgia to do the same."]]
Hey, Mike, what's the other side of your filthy little quid pro quo? What will you and other Republicans do if we DON'T drop all charges against Mango Mussolini and deny the American people justice? The technical term for what you're doing here is "extortion," and it's a felony. But that should suit you as a Republican just fine.
Or conversely, how about Trump having a come to Jesus moment after his near death experience and renouncing violence, dropping his campaign, and admitting his whole life has been a wasted opportunity to do something good in the world with all his inherited wealth…..that would lower the temperature too……Naaah!
On the contrary, at the first opportunity he yelled "Fight!" to the crowd.
I know, but I was dreaming of an alternate universe in which Don had a contemplative bone somewhere in his fat swathed body.
They NEVER hold the true culprits accountable.
Haha! I bet he thinks it was, however, the best day of his life.
Probably. He's always loved playing the victim, and it's a behavior commonly seen in dictators.
Wow-that takes some set to believe that holding a criminal accountable is the root of the “problem”.
He doesn't believe it. Not even Mike Lee is that stupid. Rather, he's playing at extortion.
I’m sorry, but in a country awash in guns, with virtually no restrictions on who can obtain, types of firearms permitted or where guns can be taken, how is any of this surprising?
And when trump was elected, did he, his administration or republican legislators do anything to stop the cycle of the availability of guns or propose new legislation to lessen the availability of guns or even to foster national background checks.
MAGA projection, propaganda & fear mongering: feeding its base & accomplishing nothing for the country's pressing needs. Jim’s ‘Weaponization’ committee tells the conclusion before it begins..obstruct & bury crimes by Barr & Trump. https://www.thebulwark.com/what-the-weaponization-committee-is-really-after/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzcPhMBkCk8
How many times in how many ways does Trump have to be found a guilty fraudster & thief before it dawns on the GOP that Trump can’t be trusted with our national security?
They. Don't. Care!
Surprsing as that may be even after the republican party shift from kinda-forward-looking-at-times to the intense, laser-like focus on the Orange One's rear.
They know that. They don't care. Each thinks they'll get a slice of the pie if he's elected.
We can be grateful that Trump was NOT assassinated. His expression of violence and ill will generates more expressions of lethal violence in its wake--his promotion of January 6th proves this point.
The pathetic case of the 20 year old would be killer illustrates another example of how constant cruel-hearted bullying leads to extreme violence. Most of those in our recent past who've slaughtered others with Automatic Rifles have been outcasted and bullied. [Hatred and a deep lack of love impacts all of us.]
Much will be made of the shooters $15 donation to the democratic party in Jan 2021 but how much will be said about him actually registering as a republican in Sep 2021?
No one will urge trump to thank Biden for his concern and call for “lowering the temperature” (even though they created this vile environment)
I just want to smack the face off of that head!
But it wasn't him; it was his father.
Oh? That I didn't know.
It was not a donation to the Democratic Party.
Understood. My post was quite early in the news cycle. What was it?
Adam, sorry, I just saw this: It was to Progressive Turnout Project, via Act Blue. I’m not sure whether age is a factor in political donations, but he wasn’t yet 18.
Unsubstantiated rumor that the donation was because he lost a bet with a Democratic friend about the election
I may have passed some not-so-rock-solid intel. It was early in the news cycle. Jennifer and Theresa appear to have some updated details.
“FBI searches for motive behind shooting” is the funniest headline - there are probably 100,000,00 different motives to look at. Trump is the least public spirited person in the entire country - ever.
For all we know, Trump sexually assaulted a woman (or girl) that the shooter cared about. Or maybe Trump refused to pay for services provided by the shooter's grandparents or cousins, and it bankrupted them. Long before Trump invaded our politics with his agenda of hatred, he had cut a swath of victims through our society that beggars belief. Motives abound.
This environment of extreme violence, threats, sedition, numerous indictments for crimes are all on the republican party. No one wants to see gun fire anywhere, especially in any crowd. However, these same idiots called Sandy Hook a hoax, made jokes about Nancy Pelosi’s husband after his attack. Trump and the republican party do nothing but inflame and incite Hitler rhetoric. MTG & others IMMEDIATELY fired up threatening rhetoric. The Democratic politicians spoke out against violence.
I put NOTHING past these domestic terrorists. MTG, BOEBERT & others have Christmas cards with the family holding military grade weapons. They are monsters. THEY created this. If you want to see people settle down then we need to see justice! Trump, J6 terrorists, most members of the republican Congress supported sedition! Make the appropriate legal arrests and the rest of us will settle down! These Republicans stop every attempt at real gun control. I think it is only fair that they are shown what the dangers are that they have placed so many others in.
I’t’s always good to wait a week before discussing what happened, but the REPUBLICANS didn’t wait 3 minutes before naming specific names, Biden et al. The supporters at the rally are supporting a 34 count felon, rapist, seditionists, gun proponents. Sorry, there will be no sympathy from me.
The fact is that we have an old man with a competent team running against an old man with a criminal team. The criminal team may not have authorized an assassination attempt but they are going to go to town with suppositions about the Biden campaign having done so.
Will this be the blow-hard's maga-martyr moment?
I don't want to joke about this but pretty much ALL media treat the upcoming election like the cliff-hanger at the end of an episode of 1960's era Batman show.
Actually, this whole race is more like professional wrestling on TV. Good guys, bad guys, idiots with signs in the audience who take sides, and everything being designed behind the scenes...
I can see that and raise you a twat, an idjit and a nay-sayer!
But that criminal team is also competent.
Now that the Heritage Foundation is involved they will have much more competent foot soldiers and middle management but they are also fully staffed with nincompoops up top.
Well said . Premature theories is the life blood of the media. They cannot wait to report the factual news. They need to guess what the news is and put it out before the other salivating media outlets. As for using this to squelch any and all criticism of their candidate is part of the GOP operating manual these days. Maybe some GOP voters will take pause and reflect on who is responsible for the ramped up level of hatred that drives someone to attempt to kill another. Maybe they will stay home in November or maybe even cast their vote for a decent candidate.
George, people who support a 34-count felon and deadly seditionist inciter, do not pause and reflect. If they’re still with trump at this point, they will double down. This is the damage caused by not getting trump in prison in the first place.
George, you are correct that premature theories are the lifeblood of today’s media landscape & you are so close to correctly defining the media’s actual methodology. But they don’t “guess what the news is,” they guess at which version of the story will garner the most attention & they run with that.
Attention = increased viewership = money from advertisers
“It may not be good for America, but it’s damn good for CBS" -- Les Moonves, former CEO of CBS, talking in 2016 about Trump's first campaign.
Yup
Excellent disctinction and quite correct in my opinion.
We are being entertained to death....
TFG arguably a victim of his own rhetoric; and MAGA R’s trying to stifle criticism of TFG and to glorify him. Honest debate on his record and issues is appropriate.
Reining in the rhetoric is all fine and good, but here's another instance of gun violence. That's my focus.
Joseph, this is what they promote daily. Guns, violence, dangerous conspiracy theories, supporting a danger FELON as their candidate. Causing the deaths of others. That IS what guns are for. Guns are to kill people. But this country is the only advanced (?)one to REFUSE to look at removing guns from public. This doesn’t mean zero guns…it means we must do what every civilized country on planet earth has already done. We are total outliers!
I disagree. Guns are merely tools. It's the attitudes behind using ANY tool to kill another person that has to be addressed and changed. No one seems to look at that.
Guns are tools to kill! What an ignorant comment you make. We are the only advanced nation on planet earth to have these idiotic loose gun laws and allowance for any citizen to own one. Stop with excuses!
Hey, "thoughts and prayers!".... Just like at a school shooting...
It seems like Democrats don’t know many populist lines.
How about one with which the late Paul Wellstone used to open his popular stump speeches in Minnesota. Note the comma pauses…
“DO you want, six more years, of the B1 bomber!? (Crowd: NO!)
Do you want, six more years, of cuts to food stamps?!!
Do you want, six more years, of Rudy Boschwitz!!!?”
By then the crowd was on its feet and screaming NO!
This should not be so hard, but it takes a little practice.
Yup. Compare and contrast ideas so people want to listen, not turn away.
I knew this week was going to be an absolute disaster. Republicans literally hate America and everything it stands for. They are pathetic political hacks, who will lie, cheat, and steal their way to victory. They are sub-human, evil people.
In the interests of normal human ambivalence, I will guess that they probably make passable chicken dinners.
One comment I heard recently was the the former president is the only person who has the ability to reorient the violent rhetoric, and he has a unique opportunity to accomplish this on a huge platform during the Republican convention. It's a remarkable coincidence this event is very soon and could, whether sincere or not, enable the electorate to step back from the precipice of anarchy. All of us need a reset to take a breath and ask ourselves some serious questions about the apocalyptic rhetoric now in vogue.
[[All of us need a reset to take a breath and ask ourselves some serious questions about the apocalyptic rhetoric now in vogue.]]
No, all of us don't. Republicans do. Responsible Democrats are not engaging in apocalyptic rhetoric; rather, as Heather says, they are stating facts: Donald Trump is a threat to democracy who belongs in prison. The Republican Party, with Project 2025, is a threat to democracy as well as the health of the planet and many other desirable things. Saying these things is not apocalyptic. It is a rational response to _behavior_, not just rhetoric, that is, itself, apocalyptic.
Agreed with one further distinction.
learnin4life said: "he has a unique opportunity to accomplish this on a huge platform during the Republican convention."
Yes, HE does. Not WE but HE!!! Because HE leads THEM!!!
Now what do you suppose this man with the great opportunity will do?
We’ve seen what he will do over and over with no consequences! The ficus will always be trump himself. There is no wake up call for him.
This is the authoritarian playbook in action. Illegal to criticize the Dear Leader. Get used to it if Trump wins, which he won't and all of these snakes will go back into their holes.
Kim, from your lips … 🤞
I think the object is to have more Dems act responsibly. There seems to be confusion around rhetoric that incites and rhetoric that is factual. Maybe confusion about what needs to be said.
Frankly by now people know whether they believe DJT belongs in prison or not. That topic isn’t moving anyone to change whether they support DJT, oppose him or feel apathetic about voting. The same for ‘threat to democracy’. None of it is moving people who should be persuadable because the same rhetoric pours out of both ‘camps.’ I
It’s the underlying facts that matter and can be persuasive.
In point of fact, up until Saturday's assassination attempt, Biden was gaining a little bit in the polls because Project 2025 got more MSM coverage last week than it had gotten every other week combined since November. That tells me we need to continue hammering on 1) the dangers presented by Projecdt 2025 and 2) the connections between Trump and the plan's authors. Feel free to disagree, but that's here I'm at on messaging right now. The beauty part of my plan is that while the language may be a little apocalyptic, that apocalypticism is also quite factual. Climate scientists are saying now that it's game over if Trump gets re-elected.
I did not say otherwise. I said there was confusion basically referring to the boundaries. Maybe I should have said “some Dems” instead of “more” but it doesn’t hurt anyone to be conscious of what they are saying & how it is received. I’ve seen passive aggressive language about wishing for death or ‘a taste of their own medicine’ remarks aimed at GOPers. That feeds the beast.
DJT and crew use those comments to justify themselves. It’s a circular argument accomplishing nothing. Their enrage to engage strategy incites violence and uses ‘alternative facts’ to activate the “lizard brain”. It is what happens when people are enraged or otherwise emotionally overwhelmed. The 1st word describing choices of the brain at that point begin with “fight.” Reasoning is suppressed.
I agree pointing out the dangers of P2025 or a political judiciary (reinforced again today) etc. are necessary. How apocalyptic the language needs to be to move people is hard to quantify. Saying what people can do is helpful in such messages because it directs the emotion & energy to positive actions.
Well said indeed Ann. We are all now richer for it.
Thank you, that’s very generous.
I hope we navigate these waters & make it safely to the shore.
We'll agree to disagree about whether Dems are also using "end of democracy" and other apocalyptic catch phrases in the current political environment. A large sector the electorate is simply worn out and the tit-for-tat between the parties and their proxies is unhelpful to lowering the temperature among all US citizens. I understand the feeling of pointing fingers, but at some point (like right now) both sides must ask to what end will this approach lead. I would argue it will eventually lead to more political violence.
There is nothing apocolyptic about what dems are saying. trump IS a threat to democracy. He's also inept when it matters. (Rewatch the Covid presser where he muses about injecting light and bleach into bodies.) trump knew he lost the election, yet he rallied forces with the big lie to attck our capitol. He hangs with dictators. He's friends with Bannon and Stone, both pardoned criminals. If anything, Dems speech doesn't fully capture all the awfulness of trump. Republicans excuse gun violence. Democrats embrace gun control. There IS a difference and there IS an election in four months.
If you read all of the article you’ll see that some dodo Dem engaged in rhetoric that was totally irresponsible in the wake of the incident. There is room for Dems to tamp down the off message hot rhetoric & focus on our goals. One goal should not be to feed into the idea that we are the same.
Regardless, appearing to be like the opposition does not win over voters. It wears them out and pushes them to the couch on Election Day. Only voters can save us from the a DJT future.
But the Dems need to get better at conveying facts and motivating people. Wrap the facts in entertainment and engagement.
Yes, offering tasks to help with the cause that are doable for many people helps motivate and engage. It redirects a lot of that negative energy from frustration and anger. Gavin Newsom is recruiting people for outreach mostly by texting - nationwide.
“The Republican District Attorney in Butler County, PA, should immediately file charges against Joseph R. Biden for inciting an assassination,” Rep. Mike Collins, R-Ga., wrote on X."
"Sen. Rick Scott, R-Fla., who is running to be the next Senate Republican leader, wrote that “Democrats and liberals in the media have called Trump a fascist. They’ve compared him to Hitler. “This isn’t some unfortunate incident,” Scott's post continued. “This was an assassination attempt by a madman inspired by the rhetoric of the radical left.”
“For weeks Democrat leaders have been fueling ludicrous hysteria that Donald Trump winning re-election would be the end of democracy in America,” Scalise said in a statement. “Clearly we’ve seen far left lunatics act on violent rhetoric in the past. This incendiary rhetoric must stop.”
"We are in a battle between GOOD and EVIL," Greene wrote on X. "The Democrats are the party of pedophiles, murdering the innocent unborn, violence, and bloody, meaningless, endless wars."
There's more. Rs never own up to their rhetoric.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/prominent-republicans-lay-blame-democrats-trump-rally-shooting-rcna161774
I don’t see your point and it doesn’t address what I said.
Learnin4life, calling this tit for tat is outrageous! Go read PROJECT 2025 that only REPUBLICANS are pursuing. If you’re over 6 years old, you have heard the conspiracy theories, watched a deadly sedition, heard these people incite terrorism and laugh at Sandy Hook as a hoax. Among supporting a 34-count FELON. Their threats are to specific people and democrats as a group. Tit for tat on both sides BS!
This isn't tit-for-tat, dear. Trump already has launched one failed insurrection and is threatening to launch another if he doesn't like the outcome of the election. And Project 2025, drawn up by some of the people closest to Trump, speaks for itself. What Democrats are stating about him is not "apocalyptic rhetoric," but fact. Your attempt to draw some kind of moral equivalence between what Democrats are saying and what Republicans are saying is at best ill-informed and at worst a Russian psyop.
Are we warming up for an authoritarian government where you're wrong to criticize and tell the truth?? There is no equivalence between GOP tactices and Dem tactics as much as some people want to try. Stating the truth is not a call to violence. Criticism of the other party or other candidate is not a call to violence. Making claims about what a politican might do is not a call to violence. Calls to violence are calls to violence. Using actual violent thetoric is a call to violence. Using violent imagery is a call to violence. The picture of Biden hog-tied in the back of a pick up truck. Gosar's picture of him killing Ocasio-Crotez. Trumps image of him taking a baseball bat to Alvin Bragg's head. Trump saying there will a bloodbath if he doesn't win. House GOP'ers wearing AR-15 lapel pins. Mark Robinson saying some folks need killing. trump saying the 2nd smendment people could take care of Hillary Clinton picking judges. (Thanks to Heather Cox Richardson for some of these. There are so many it's hard to remember them all.) There is comparison.
Who said Dems could not state the truth or criticize the opposition? Or that violent rhetoric is a main characteristic of Dems? I believe too much is being read into a call to cool things off.
Maybe you’ve not seen violent or rhetoric from people claiming to be liberals or Dems, on social media including forums like this. It exists. Maybe you missed an unprompted chant at a Biden event “lock him up” which was quickly hushed. The Dem donor’s spokesperson quoted in the article had the grace to apologize for his conspiracy theory.
No, not all calls to violence or to provoke violence are overt. Calling people animals leads to permission to be violent but is not a direct call to violence. It is also designed to create outrage. Neither is wearing an AR-15 pin. It is a double message and designed to create outrage.
There is no reason we can’t discuss disagreements on major issues without it. For instance, Judge Cannon just dismissed the classified document case. There is no reason not to talk about WHY or HOW we disagree or view it is as threat.
Who said that Dems could not state the truth or criticize? JD Vance, for one, a front runner for GOP VP. In the confusion immediately after the shooting, MAGA Republicans blamed the Democrats for the violence. “Today is not just some isolated incident,” Ohio senator J.D. Vance, who is in the running to be Trump’s vice presidential pick, posted on social media. He said: “The central premise of the Biden campaign is that President Donald Trump is an authoritarian fascist who must be stopped at all costs. That rhetoric led directly to President Trump’s attempted assassination.” Representative Mike Collins of Georgia called for a Republican district attorney to “immediately file charges against Joseph R. Biden for inciting an assassination.” Indeed, he said, “Joe Biden sent the orders.” (Thanks to Heather Cox Richardson for these examples.)
Interesting. I thought the angst was about “both sidesism”, being held to an higher standard and denial that some Dems say inappropriate unhelpful and worse - including conspiracy theories immediately after the shootings.
Vance was quoted in this article also. I saw the remarks from Collins reported soon after the incident. Vance, for example, uses rhetorical tricks. When he adds “at all costs” it is an implied call to violence. I believe anyone using that language should stop. Yes, they are trying to make certain criticism that damages them off limits. Although I think it would be wiser for Dems to talk about the elements of fascism pushed by the GOP under DJT than get in a back and forth about “you’re a fascist, no you’re a fascist.”
These 2 characters and others of their ilk offer opportunities to contrast who we are, our goals & record — as long as we don’t fall into the same mud pit.
We are being entertained to death ☠️☠️☠️.
This cartoon says it all
https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc78d0acb-f791-4dcf-ae98-43b21e226535_1284x902.jpeg
Unfortunately i'm surprised this hasn't happened before, what with the huge numbers of easily accessible guns in america. Texas & floriDUH just did away with any requirements to register weapons. the Repukkkelikkkan NRA puppets take the bribes and block any gun control. The Orange Antichrist spews hate, bigotry, intolerance, divides our country, makes fun of disabled reporters, rapes women (& children), kidnapped & put immigrant children in cages, lies pathologically about the 2020 election, defrauds americans for millions, is it really any surprise. The only antidote is to vote OUT all republicans up & down ballot. They are a party of hate and fascism and cannot be trusted to govern America fairly & sanely.